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Plot twists that WON'T happen

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Re: Plot twists that WON'T happen
Post by Marty   » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:16 pm

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The Mesan Alignment discover a new sentient species that live in trees and look like bulldogs. These "treedogs" become deadly sworn enemies of the treecats.
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Re: Plot twists that WON'T happen
Post by Lord Skimper   » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:05 pm

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Marty wrote:The Mesan Alignment discover a new sentient species that live in trees and look like bulldogs. These "treedogs" become deadly sworn enemies of the treecats.


Discover? You mean create!
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Re: Plot twists that WON'T happen
Post by emeye   » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:54 am

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Well, I guess I have to continue "educating" you, because you continue to operate under assumption that is no longer valid in presence of multiple sapient and sentient species.

Professional blinders, perhaps?

Your unvoiced assumption is that a physician (der Arzt, in German; distinction is even greater in that language) can only be intended to treat humans. Everything non-human is treated by a veterinarian (der Tierarzt, literally "pyhsician for animals" in German--see the distinction?)

Now, with the assumption being broken, can one call sapient and sentient non-humans "animals?" The term animal implies lack of higher mental functions.

If we agree that xenosapients/xenosophonts/xenosentients do not rate term "animals," then they do not rate being treated by "physicians for animals," xeno or otherwise.

Am I being clear?

In German, the implication of xenoveterinarians (Xeno-Tierärzte) treating xenosophonts would not occur, as the part "animal" (Tier) would obviously be insulting.

You appear to be going by professional US definition of "veterinary," which is a valid one here and now. I simply state that such a definition would not seamlessly translate to a universe with xeno-animals AND xeno-sophonts in it.

roseandheather wrote:
emeye wrote:According to my dictionary, veterinary medicine is medicine practiced on animals.

Animals, not "non-human beings."

Of course, lacking proven sentients other than humans, terms "animal" and "non-human being" are equivalent.

On the other hand, if non-human sentients were present, I would not expect them to approve being equated to animals, simply because they happen to be non-human. Do you?


Please. Feel free to continue to "educate" me, an actual, certified, degree-holding veterinary technician/nurse, as to the scope of my profession. By all means, continue.

Treecats are treated by xenoveterinarians, not physicians, because their biology is by and large far more similar to that of felinoid/mustelid mammals than it is to human biology.

In addition, physicians are, by definition, solely qualified to treat human beings except in the case of extreme emergency, as veterinarians today are solely qualified to treat non-human species except in cases of extreme emergency. The scope of human medical practice is solely limited to homo sapiens sapiens. Anything falling outside that purview is the province of a veterinarian when dealing with members of the kingdom "animalia" and its similar xenospecies.

Do I make myself clear?
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Re: Plot twists that WON'T happen
Post by Reader Bob   » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:08 pm

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Kind of hate to point something out to a number of posters. Unless we happen to be vegitables or some kinds of virus and maybe some other forms of life (algae?) we are animals. Doesn't seem to be any other choice. :lol:
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Re: Plot twists that WON'T happen
Post by roseandheather   » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:05 pm

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Reader Bob wrote:Kind of hate to point something out to a number of posters. Unless we happen to be vegitables or some kinds of virus and maybe some other forms of life (algae?) we are animals. Doesn't seem to be any other choice. :lol:


Exactly.

Emeye, you are entirely missing my point - wilfully so. You are so hung up on the idea that a sapient species couldn't possibly be called something so crass as an "animal" that you're entirely ignoring the basic facts of biology that put treecats squarely within a xenoveterinarian's purview, not a human physician's.

What does what a veterinarian vs. physician is called in German have to do with anything? What a veterinarian is called in one particular language has no bearing on what that profession actually consists of, and on whether or not treecats - sapient or not - would be treated by a xenoveterinarian instead of a physician.

Veterinarians (in this case, xenoveterinarians) treat non-human species. Particularly when that non-human species shares many, many biological traits with felines and mustelids, both of which are well within any veterinarian's scope of practice! Sapience does not, and never has, entered into the equation.

It is literally that simple. Sapience has nothing to do with the distinction; biology does. I'm sorry if you can't accept that, but you are wrong, and you are being incredibly rude about it to boot.

You. Are. Wrong. Canon says so, and someone in the profession says so. Let it go.

ETA: Oh, by the way, that "Professional blinders, perhaps?" comment was phenomenally rude and entirely unnecessary. I am not the one who doesn't understand the distinction between human and veterinary medicine. You are.
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Re: Plot twists that WON'T happen
Post by jchilds   » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:36 pm

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Of course now that the 'cat is out of the bag, as it were, we might see a separate specialty emerge for treecat medicine in the near future, that draws in practitioners from multiple backgrounds as the field evolves.
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Re: Plot twists that WON'T happen
Post by roseandheather   » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:43 pm

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jchilds wrote:Of course now that the 'cat is out of the bag, as it were, we might see a separate specialty emerge for treecat medicine in the near future, that draws in practitioners from multiple backgrounds as the field evolves.


I can absolutely see that happening. One of the biggest limitations of veterinary medicine has been our inability to talk to our patients (or, more to the point, have them talk back), meaning that half the time we're playing guessing games. Very educated guessing games, of course, but still guessing games. With that roadblock eliminated, I expect the veterinary community is going to learn a lot more about treecat biology very quickly.

While I can't see an entirely new profession developing, for the simple reason that the total number of treecats is limited, I would absolutely expect that treecat medicine would become a xenoveterinary specialty along the current lines of today's equine specialists.
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I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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who veterinarians treat was: WON'T happen
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:44 pm

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::a Naughty Moose responds::

Hey! I'd thought that veterinarians treated Veterans! :)
:D :mrgreen: :lol: :P :twisted:

Naughty Moose
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Re: who veterinarians treat was: WON'T happen
Post by roseandheather   » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:47 pm

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Howard T. Map-addict wrote:::a Naughty Moose responds::

Hey! I'd thought that veterinarians treated Veterans! :)
:D :mrgreen: :lol: :P :twisted:

Naughty Moose


:roll: Why, that joke is almost as old as the dinosaurs. How terribly, terribly clever. *headdesk*

:lol: :roll:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Plot twists that WON'T happen
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:12 pm

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jchilds wrote:Of course now that the 'cat is out of the bag, as it were, we might see a separate specialty emerge for treecat medicine in the near future, that draws in practitioners from multiple backgrounds as the field evolves.
I don't think there's enough medical work to support a treecat only practice.

So it's going to have to be treecat + <something>. There's not much overlap in biology and methods, but I guess there's nothing to stop a physician from being also certified as a xeno-<treecat specialist term>. But it still seems to make more sense, to me, for a xenovetinarian, who works with all Sphinxian species, to also work on treecats.

Maybe that become an additional degree, or specialty, with a separate name. But it still seems closer to Sphinxian vet work than Human physician work.
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