Solarian Military Catchup Attempts

Essentialy the GA/SEM wants individual Systems and even small goups of systems to just go neutral in this fight or set up direct trade relations and withdraw from the SL.

SEM can in no way take on the SL as a group, that is why the Harrington Doctrine. The best they can hope for is to 1) get the SL to leave them alone and 2) cause enough systems to come to the conclusion that they are best off with being a trading partner directly with SEM and not support the SL.

It is hoped that the political/bureaucratic framwork of the SL will fail and the League fragment into many separate groups and/or individal Star Nations which will remove both the existing problem as exhibited by the Mandarins and OFS and give those fragments of the League a lot more to worry about amoung themselves than a war they don't want with SEM.

Brigade XO wrote:Essentialy the GA/SEM wants individual Systems and even small goups of systems to just go neutral in this fight or set up direct trade relations and withdraw from the SL.

SEM can in no way take on the SL as a group, that is why the Harrington Doctrine. The best they can hope for is to 1) get the SL to leave them alone and 2) cause enough systems to come to the conclusion that they are best off with being a trading partner directly with SEM and not support the SL.

It is hoped that the political/bureaucratic framwork of the SL will fail and the League fragment into many separate groups and/or individal Star Nations which will remove both the existing problem as exhibited by the Mandarins and OFS and give those fragments of the League a lot more to worry about amoung themselves than a war they don't want with SEM.

As I understand the situation, and I believe that RFC has indicated this, the current political/bureaucratic structue of the League is going down. What will replace it when that happens is really the big question. My own guess is that it will range from democratic accountability in the more established sectors to outright autocracy on worlds without firmly established political traditions and probably everything between those two poles.

Don

n7axw wrote:As I understand the situation, and I believe that RFC has indicated this, the current political/bureaucratic structue of the League is going down. What will replace it when that happens is really the big question. My own guess is that it will range from democratic accountability in the more established sectors to outright autocracy on worlds without firmly established political traditions and probably everything between those two poles.

If the UN disappeared tomorrow that would result in the government of the G20 nations changing how? That's about the level of the SL impact on most member systems.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:As I understand the situation, and I believe that RFC has indicated this, the current political/bureaucratic structue of the League is going down. What will replace it when that happens is really the big question. My own guess is that it will range from democratic accountability in the more established sectors to outright autocracy on worlds without firmly established political traditions and probably everything between those two poles.

If the UN disappeared tomorrow that would result in the government of the G20 nations changing how? That's about the level of the SL impact on most member systems.

One thing I can see is a good number of the SL systems deciding to stick together in one form or another. There is strength in numbers and systems that stand together do better than systems that are on their own. That's why I don't expect the SL to slag down into its components like many people think it will. Will it break up somewhat? Most likely. Break apart completely? No. That being said, I think the larger parts of the SL will exist on the far side of the SL from the SEM. At some point the SEM will have to accept the existence of large and possibly larger portions of the SL or pieces of the SL than it would prefer. Unless they use military means, I forsee something like the SL reforming sooner than later.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:As I understand the situation, and I believe that RFC has indicated this, the current political/bureaucratic structue of the League is going down. What will replace it when that happens is really the big question. My own guess is that it will range from democratic accountability in the more established sectors to outright autocracy on worlds without firmly established political traditions and probably everything between those two poles.

If the UN disappeared tomorrow that would result in the government of the G20 nations changing how? That's about the level of the SL impact on most member systems.

The SLN is not the UN. I will grant your comparison at least limited application on core worlds which have membership status and sovereignty. But even there the existence of the SLN means that it is a different proposition. In the protectorates, the League is the enforcer of the transstellars rape of their economies as well as the sourse of OFS governors, goons, etc.

Don

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:As I understand the situation, and I believe that RFC has indicated this, the current political/bureaucratic structue of the League is going down. What will replace it when that happens is really the big question. My own guess is that it will range from democratic accountability in the more established sectors to outright autocracy on worlds without firmly established political traditions and probably everything between those two poles.

If the UN disappeared tomorrow that would result in the government of the G20 nations changing how? That's about the level of the SL impact on most member systems.

Rather than the toothless UN, a better comparison is the federal government of the USA disappearing. North America fragments into about fifty-five states, with incomprehensible effects on global and domestic relations.

The potential for the SL to frament into many pieces ranging from single system Star Nations to pairs or small groups in a new federation to major groups is why the Alignment set up the RF. The intent is for the RF to be the nucleation points for smaller groups of former SL member systems and eventually to form the actual RF.

There would be many systems that would at least attempt to become or remain independent but they are going to have to deal with predatory groups including close neighbors or newly formed alliances.

The UN depends on various member countries for both its financial support and as the muscle (both political and military) to enforce anything.It can ASK or TELL countries to do (or stop doing) things but without one or more member countries providing the clout and resources nothing will happen.

The SL has its own income stream and -until the advent of the various powers in the Haven Quadrant with their vastly improved technology and the Alignment- the most powerful military force in the known universe. The bureaucracy was effectively running the show- badly- and either allowing or complicit in the various abuses and outright crimes being committed within the League or outside of it in it's name.

Think of the SL at this point as a overfull pot just below the boiling point and most of the potential problems and conflicts within it or within the area it nominally controls with OFS.

We, the readers, have been given a look at a large number of problems simmering even if the Alignment was not activly working to destroy the League. I am sure there are more we have not yet heard of. We have a clear notice that there are systems or blocks of systems that would be at war with one another if not for the SLN as the big stick to keep the dogs from fighting.

It has been suggested in the past that what is comming for the SL will worse and MUCH faster a collapse then the Roman Empire with the fighting for positions withing and outside the Leage area much more fragmented with the ultimate "resolution" made worse by the Alignment's control of the soon-to-be RF. After all, what does the Alignment need the Lenny Dets for if not to devastate any System or group of Systems which appears to stand a chance of becoming a legitimate focal point for a successor state to the SL?

munroburton wrote:Rather than the toothless UN, a better comparison is the federal government of the USA disappearing. North America fragments into about fifty-five states, with incomprehensible effects on global and domestic relations.

No, the SL has absolutely minimal impact on the member systems. That's why it has survived despite being so nonfunctional. It's about equal to the UNs impact on the U.S., not the federal government. The SL does all sorts of minor behind the scenes things, but they have no direct impact on most SL citizens.

munroburton wrote:

kzt wrote:If the UN disappeared tomorrow that would result in the government of the G20 nations changing how? That's about the level of the SL impact on most member systems.

Rather than the toothless UN, a better comparison is the federal government of the USA disappearing. North America fragments into about fifty-five states, with incomprehensible effects on global and domestic relations.

The UN might be understating things, especially out in the verge.

But the US Federal Government is vastly overstating things. US States are much less autonomous that member systems of the League. Financially, militarily, legislatively, member systems of the League have way more freedom to do their own thing. And the central government is deliberately much more funding starved, so it doesn't even have the same ability to collect taxes and then offer the money back to members with conditions (like how US Federal highway funding was conditional on adopting a 55 mph speed limit)

kzt wrote:

munroburton wrote:Rather than the toothless UN, a better comparison is the federal government of the USA disappearing. North America fragments into about fifty-five states, with incomprehensible effects on global and domestic relations.

No, the SL has absolutely minimal impact on the member systems. That's why it has survived despite being so nonfunctional. It's about equal to the UNs impact on the U.S., not the federal government. The SL does all sorts of minor behind the scenes things, but they have no direct impact on most SL citizens.

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I suspect that if the SL central government (such as it is, and what there is of it) were to fail or dissolve, the League would break up of its own accord into regions that already have trade inter-dependencies;
Think the current EU returning to its previous status as the Common Market.
But unless those resultant regional interdependencies can form actual regional governments, they will be ripe for RF influence.

-- Stewart