On the Protection of Trade

Duckk wrote:Second, there is not going to be some sort of two tier system going on with regards to system defense. The RMN is going to be responsible for defending every member system, and won't be shuffling off duties to a second tier defense force.

Though I suspect that if a given system is unsatisfied with the level of security the RMN feel appropriate and if the system wants to fund additional measures that some sort of accommodation will be reached that is mutually satisfactory. Possibly fortresses, as they can't re redeployed to "higher priority systems".

kzt wrote:

Duckk wrote:Second, there is not going to be some sort of two tier system going on with regards to system defense. The RMN is going to be responsible for defending every member system, and won't be shuffling off duties to a second tier defense force.

Though I suspect that if a given system is unsatisfied with the level of security the RMN feel appropriate and if the system wants to fund additional measures that some sort of accommodation will be reached that is mutually satisfactory. Possibly fortresses, as they can't re redeployed to "higher priority systems".

Eh ... I kind of expect that the nominal minimum non-nodal force is likely to consist of something like a division to a squadron of light combatants, a fair number of LACs and system defense missile pods, and probably some courier ships as well. Ultimately, the system defense pods will be controlled by Mycroft, but that's probably going to come later.

I doubt fortresses would be the solution the RMN would like - that's a massive investment of personnel and hardware - probably the equivalent of a superdreadnought or two, if not more, even with automation. More likely, I think, would be an increase in pods, LACs and maybe the mobile hypercapable forces, and perhaps more frequent stops by ships swinging through on patrols or stops by the occasional bigger ship(s) showing the flag. The RMN didn't even have fortresses around Manticore, Gryphon, and Sphinx, (or Basilisk) just around the Junction and on the other end of the wormhole termini.

After all, a few wings worth of LACs should enough to stop most anything below the wall without LACs of their own, and the missile pods should handle the rest of those cases. Anything a few wings of LACs backed by the pods can't handle is probably something that the nodal force should be responding to anyways.

The entire point of a fortress is that it isn't strategically mobile. Regardless of the decisions of people hundreds of light years away, the fortresses that protect your planet are not going anywhere.

And those huge, tens of thousands of tons, computer complexes and the hundreds of techs David says are needed to run a KH2, where do you think they are going? Would that possibly be the kind of high value target that you might need to protect?

kzt wrote:The entire point of a fortress is that it isn't strategically mobile. Regardless of the decisions of people hundreds of light years away, the fortresses that protect your planet are not going anywhere.

Forts are not particularly tactically mobile either.
They're not so good at protecting the rest of the system or keeping somebody from using the rest of the system.
However ... fortresses ... we've seen them around two planets. Grayson, and Haven. Not Manticore. Manticore has only ever put fortresses around the Junction and the other end of its wormhole termini.
The RMN isn't going to go around planting fortresses around planets just because the locals want more defenses. It's a horribly inefficient use of resources, and not the most effective way to defend the planet or rest of the system.

And those huge, tens of thousands of tons, computer complexes and the hundreds of techs David says are needed to run a KH2, where do you think they are going? Would that possibly be the kind of high value target that you might need to protect?

Mycroft is probably going to have its own platform or perhaps a groundside station. It could be included in a fortress-esque platform. If the control center is its own platform, based on what we know about Moriarty, the minimum size is ~400kt. In all likelihood, the requirements for dedicated Mycroft control center would be 1mt or less. It's also possible that RMN warships can link into the Mycroft network if they're close enough to a node.
We don't know.





The point being, if system applies for more protection, the RMN's answer isn't going to be "let's build them some forts". It's going to be "let's give them some more LAC bases and wings, some more system defense pods, and maybe increase the size of the hypercapable picket".

Kytheros wrote:Forts are not particularly tactically mobile either.
They're not so good at protecting the rest of the system or keeping somebody from using the rest of the system.
However ... fortresses ... we've seen them around two planets. Grayson, and Haven. Not Manticore. Manticore has only ever put fortresses around the Junction and the other end of its wormhole termini.
The RMN isn't going to go around planting fortresses around planets just because the locals want more defenses. It's a horribly inefficient use of resources, and not the most effective way to defend the planet or rest of the system.

Not true - Read AAC again - the Defenses at Gryphon were being updated to KH2 just prior to the Beatrice strike - What are those defenses - fortresses which contain the fire control for the missile Pods. Remember KH2 isn't just 2 floating drones with defenses and FTL Fire control repeaters - it requires something to place the ~70,000 tons of computers in and the usual fire control systems an SD or Fort would have to control the missiles.

During the Battle, the Sphinx defenses were told not to engage and fire their pods. What are those defenses - More fortresses.

There were also fortresses at Grendlesbane - their fire control had never been upgraded to fire MDMs, nor had they received MDM pods, so they were considered sitting ducks and abandoned when Higgins blew the system.

There are even 4 or 5 Forts in Basilisk Orbit now, built by High Ridge, as a part of rebuilding the Basilisk Economy - an economy of ~ 1 million humans and the Medieval tech level natives.

In fact, Manticore is Fort KRAZY, it built ~120 for the junction before the 1st war, and it seems has replaced them with ~50-60 of a new, labor saving modular design between the wars, built 16 at the Basilisk terminus and 12-16 at the Trevor's Star Terminus during the 1st war, built 12 at Lynx terminus during the 2nd war, and 4-5 at Basilisk itself, in addition to the defenses of the 3 home planets and Grendlesbane (and probably Hancock and Sidemore). That`s ~250 forts which average 16 MTons apiece, or the equivalent of 500 SDs, or the amount of SDs and DNs completed between the start of the buildup and the end of the 1st war.

So why shouldn't a planet in the SEM be able to petition for, or purchase itself, a defensive fort system?