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Honorverse ramblings and musings

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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Somtaaw   » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:41 am

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cthia wrote:
Somtaaw wrote:

Aerosal vector's would be a nightmare to design, and based on the description that the assassin nanites have to be tailored using a sample of the target specifically. That would indicate that either you're using an aerosal vector blanketing hundreds of people to actually 'infect' a single target, or you're having to obtain samples of hundreds of people, whipping up the nanites and releasing hundreds of slightly different nanite variants for each person, which may actually become visible at initial release.

Now somewhere like Grayson would be far easier to achieve proper aerosal infection, given each and every home is, for all intents a self-contained orbital station. So you could infect the entirety of Grayson, one home at a time, and nobody would notice until suddenly the nanites activated.


Circling back around, an aerosal vector of the suicide protocals may not need to be specifically tailored to its target, but you'd also get the statistical clumping that the MAlign avoided when they were leaving Mesa. Unless you managed to write some form of program so the nanites inside a person essentially use a lottery to determine how they'll kill a person. However you'd still get some form of statistical clumping not to mention unusual causes of death where someone that has no history of X condition [say heart disease] suddenly drops dead from a heart attack, when they'd just had a physical and pronounced perfectly healthy.

Indeed, aerosol vectors would be a nightmare to design. As dramatized on "The Last Ship" tv series. And discussed amongst the MDs in my group.

Obtaining a DNA sample of an intended target is easy peasy. (Law enforcement and the like just kindly offer you the hospitality of a soft drink. Then send the expended can to the lab.)

Obtaining the sample, working with the sample, then getting access to the target again, as would have had to occur with Lt. Meares, a military target, raises questions. Especially if the DNA sample has to be streaked all the way back to Darius.

This discussion also comes full circle to whether a select target group can be targeted en masse if their DNA is similar. Like the entire Winton line.

I also suspect that ventilation systems could be utilized to achieve the same goals. Or tainted water supplies.

Which would move it closer to the perfect crime. Since tracing the vector of infection would be thwarted by the fact that most of everyone who drank from the "source" are not affected.



I remain a little unconvinced that biological weapons can be targetted only on a particular genome line, such as the Wintons, or the Harringtons, just from their genome.

It may become slightly more possible because if there were certain, trace elements or similar that are unique to certain planets, it may be easier to genengineer some form of bioweapon that could target individuals from that planet.They'd be carriers of those local bugs and resistances, which is different enough from regular humans to specifically target.

So offhand, a handful of Andermani systems, Manticorans because of their After-Landing plague, Sphinx; and that's about it for planets we have hard data on having had local bugs that mutated and killed lots of humans.


Targetting genomes directly I think is a doomed failure, humanity isn't that genetically diverse that you could target specific subsets without actually killing everybody, or just giving everybody the sniffles but nothing serious.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:02 am

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cthia wrote:
Somtaaw wrote:

Aerosal vector's would be a nightmare to design, and based on the description that the assassin nanites have to be tailored using a sample of the target specifically. That would indicate that either you're using an aerosal vector blanketing hundreds of people to actually 'infect' a single target, or you're having to obtain samples of hundreds of people, whipping up the nanites and releasing hundreds of slightly different nanite variants for each person, which may actually become visible at initial release.

Now somewhere like Grayson would be far easier to achieve proper aerosal infection, given each and every home is, for all intents a self-contained orbital station. So you could infect the entirety of Grayson, one home at a time, and nobody would notice until suddenly the nanites activated.


Circling back around, an aerosal vector of the suicide protocals may not need to be specifically tailored to its target, but you'd also get the statistical clumping that the MAlign avoided when they were leaving Mesa. Unless you managed to write some form of program so the nanites inside a person essentially use a lottery to determine how they'll kill a person. However you'd still get some form of statistical clumping not to mention unusual causes of death where someone that has no history of X condition [say heart disease] suddenly drops dead from a heart attack, when they'd just had a physical and pronounced perfectly healthy.

Indeed, aerosol vectors would be a nightmare to design. As dramatized on "The Last Ship" tv series. And discussed amongst the MDs in my group.

Obtaining a DNA sample of an intended target is easy peasy. (Law enforcement and the like just kindly offer you the hospitality of a soft drink. Then send the expended can to the lab.)

Obtaining the sample, working with the sample, then getting access to the target again, as would have had to occur with Lt. Meares, a military target, raises questions. Especially if the DNA sample has to be streaked all the way back to Darius.

This discussion also comes full circle to whether a select target group can be targeted en masse if their DNA is similar. Like the entire Winton line.

I also suspect that ventilation systems could be utilized to achieve the same goals. Or tainted water supplies.

Which would move it closer to the perfect crime. Since tracing the vector of infection would be thwarted by the fact that most of everyone who drank from the "source" are not affected.
Somtaaw wrote:I remain a little unconvinced that biological weapons can be targetted only on a particular genome line, such as the Wintons, or the Harringtons, just from their genome.

It may become slightly more possible because if there were certain, trace elements or similar that are unique to certain planets, it may be easier to genengineer some form of bioweapon that could target individuals from that planet.They'd be carriers of those local bugs and resistances, which is different enough from regular humans to specifically target.

So offhand, a handful of Andermani systems, Manticorans because of their After-Landing plague, Sphinx; and that's about it for planets we have hard data on having had local bugs that mutated and killed lots of humans.


Targetting genomes directly I think is a doomed failure, humanity isn't that genetically diverse that you could target specific subsets without actually killing everybody, or just giving everybody the sniffles but nothing serious.

You may have a point Somtaaw. Quite some time ago when the discussion was raging amongst my friends, they were discussing the notion and got quite involved in the possibilities. Whereas none of them are geneticists, they are neurosurgeons and MDs. Quite a leg and a few arms up on me.

When I asked questions during these marathon sessions of theirs, they would try to water it down for me. I remember one particular explanation. Paraphrasing in layman's terms. "Consider the recommendations not to marry a first, second or third degree cousin because the genes are too similar. Cousins further removed may or may not be safe. First degree relatives share 50 % of your genes then sharply falls off.

Now bracket that. Developing a nanite to target the Winton genome would probably only work for relatives closely removed. And would probably have to mutate to encompass the entire Winton line. Orders of magnitude more difficult. And marriages where new genetic code is introduced with offspring complicates the matter. But then, the MA has a leg up on the research."

On the cuff of this discussion, and bracketing whether it is or isn't possible. What would you imagine Elizabeth would do if her bloodline suddenly started dying?

Would they then elect to rewrite the law and freeze Winton blood as a contingency?

What nags at my brain is the fact that the MAlign hasn't fully let their nanotech out of the bag and unleashed it full force. Surely there are implications there.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:57 pm

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So, targeting A specific family genome may not work. What if: One tatgerted Meyerdahl first wave modifications? IIRC there was some mention of verrrry top secret modifications to the Winton genome as well. N'est-ce pas?
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:54 am

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Why do some of the earlier images of treecats either look like a cross between a Mogwai and a Gremlin, or a treecat hopped up on PCP or Stilthy smoke?

Or maybe that's the outcome of waaaaaay too much celery.
Or perhaps one shouldn't feed a 'cat celery after midnight either!

C'mon, if that was what a 'cat appeared like to Stephanie, she would have discharged her cartridge or broken off her vibro blade in the damn thing! It gives Evil Incarnate a bad rap!

Image



I can't find references describing whether the relocation of some treecats on other planets include a representation of all clans. And whether specific clans were on specific planet(s).

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Dauntless   » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:31 am

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the first expidtion, was probably just 'Cats of Bright water, mainly cos Bright Water has lead the way ever since the First Adoption and because it was Nimitz's clan so were the most logical place to find nannies/teachers for Nimitiz and Samantha's kids.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by saber964   » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:55 pm

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Dauntless wrote:the first expidtion, was probably just 'Cats of Bright water, mainly cos Bright Water has lead the way ever since the First Adoption and because it was Nimitz's clan so were the most logical place to find nannies/teachers for Nimitiz and Samantha's kids.

They were all from Bright Water Clan, BWC is the most forward thinking clan among treecats. They've been that way since there discovery. I wouldn't be surprised if there were whole clans living on both Gryphon and Manticore in the aftermath of Oyster Bay. There are probably clans living on the Empress' holdings on both those worlds. I also think that several clans will soon be moving to various worlds in the TQ once cats like Alfredo and Lurks in Branches get a chance to go home.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:06 pm

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saber964 wrote:
Dauntless wrote:the first expidtion, was probably just 'Cats of Bright water, mainly cos Bright Water has lead the way ever since the First Adoption and because it was Nimitz's clan so were the most logical place to find nannies/teachers for Nimitiz and Samantha's kids.

They were all from Bright Water Clan, BWC is the most forward thinking clan among treecats. They've been that way since there discovery. I wouldn't be surprised if there were whole clans living on both Gryphon and Manticore in the aftermath of Oyster Bay. There are probably clans living on the Empress' holdings on both those worlds. I also think that several clans will soon be moving to various worlds in the TQ once cats like Alfredo and Lurks in Branches get a chance to go home.

Whole clans on either planet would defeat the purpose. The clans must be split. No?

As it stands, only BWC is ensured the intended safety of dispersal.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by saber964   » Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:22 pm

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cthia wrote:
saber964"quote="Dauntless wrote:the first expidtion, was probably just 'Cats of Bright water, mainly cos Bright Water has lead the way ever since the First Adoption and because it was Nimitz's clan so were the most logical place to find nannies/teachers for Nimitiz and Samantha's kids.

They were all from Bright Water Clan, BWC is the most forward thinking clan among treecats. They've been that way since there discovery. I wouldn't be surprised if there were whole clans living on both Gryphon and Manticore in the aftermath of Oyster Bay. There are probably clans living on the Empress' holdings on both those worlds. I also think that several clans will soon be moving to various worlds in the TQ once cats like Alfredo and Lurks in Branches get a chance to go home.

Whole clans on either planet would defeat the purpose. The clans must be split. No?

As it stands, only BWC is ensured the intended safety of dispersal.[/quote]


Read CoW novella, it gives a good account of what the cats are going to be thinking. Also treecats have a different sense of time scale than humans do. By our standards 12 years have passed but to them its only been roughly 2 Sphinxian years since they sent there first colonist to Grayson. .
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:21 am

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I seriously doubt that relations between Haven and Manticore will fail at any time in the future. However — and I'm speaking from my own personal experience on my native planet Earth — politics and the political system can fail, and fail resoundingly.

In the case of failure and the need [in case of failure - break glass] to go back to war then what of the treecats? Any treecats on Haven will be caught in the middle. If this is many eons in the future then the treecats born on Haven may feel loyal to "its" native planet of birth. Same question of Grayson.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by George J. Smith   » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:24 pm

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Hi All, it's that time of the year again, so for all of you who celebrate it:

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year
Priecīgus Ziemassvētkus un laimīgu Jauno gadu
Joyeux Noël et bonne année
መልካም ገና & መልካም አዲስ አመት
ᖁᕕᐊᓱᒡᕕᒻᒥ ᖁᕕᐊᓱᒋᑦ/ ᖁᕕᐊᓱᕝᕕᓯᐅᑦᓯᐊᕆᑦ ᐊᒻᒪ ᕿᑎᙳᒪᕆᒃ
Maligayang pasko at manigong bagong taon!
أجمل التهاني بمناسبة الميلاد و حلول السنة الجديدة
聖誕節同新年快樂 誕快樂 新年快樂
Veselé vánoce a šťastný nový rok
Geseënde Kersfees en 'n voorspoedige Nuwe jaar
Fröhliche Weihnachten und ein gutes neues Jahr
Καλά Χριστούγεννα! Kala Christouyenna! Ευτυχισμένο το Νέο Έτος!
शुभ क्रिसमस नये साल की हार्दिक शुभकामनायें
Nollaig shona duit Athbhliain faoi mhaise duit
Buon Natale e felice anno nuovo
പുഥുവല്സര ആശംസകല്ന വവല്സര ആശംസകല്
سال نو مبارکكريسمس مبارک
С Рождеством Христовым С наступающим Новым Годом
Crăciun fericit şi un An Nou Fericit
Feliz Navidad y próspero año nuevo!

Looking forward to maybe a couple of anthologies in the coming year :D
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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