Preston of the Space Ways

tlb wrote:

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Because she'd be a very tempting target for anyone above a pirate. Pirates won't tangle with a corvette, so that's not a big threat anyway. But if you have wannabe warlord coming with a hypercapable surplus frigate and destroyer, and Honor is around, she'd be a target. Her armed yacht is unlikely to be significantly better than a proper warship, even an old one.

And now your system is on the hook to explaining to Manticore and Grayson and Beowulf why you've lost Honor.

Of course, this is not much different from a situation if she'd just arrived in an un-armed yacht. In either case, I think she'd simply lay low and record what is happening. She's not stupid and she'd know what her ship can or cannot do.

Theemile wrote:While you can't control every situation, if there is any danger in the location Honor is traveling to, I'm fairly certain Manticore and/or (definitely) Grayson will find a spare division of heavy cruisers or battle cruisers which just happen to be going the same direction.

Do we know that Honor has an armed yacht (that is above the level of a laser cluster to assist in particle screening)? I do not remember any indication that it could fight even a solitary frigate.

We know her Star Falcon is 48 Ktons, were a stripped DB is 35-40Ktons (an RHN Fracture (the only DB we have any #s on) is 37ktons). The only Frigate we have #s on is 53 Ktons.

Assuming roughly the same crew as a DB, That leaves 12-13 tons for 2nd and 1st class space for ~20 passengers, consumables for 6-8 weeks for the crew and passengers, and the larger hull, life support, and upscaled mechanicals required for the larger ship, and a space for a container or 2 of cargo.

So if Honor's Star Falcon is armed, it has an old LAC armament at best (~3-4 Ktons), and probably even not that.

Thinksmarkedly wrote:Because she'd be a very tempting target for anyone above a pirate. Pirates won't tangle with a corvette, so that's not a big threat anyway. But if you have wannabe warlord coming with a hypercapable surplus frigate and destroyer, and Honor is around, she'd be a target. Her armed yacht is unlikely to be significantly better than a proper warship, even an old one.

And now your system is on the hook to explaining to Manticore and Grayson and Beowulf why you've lost Honor.

Of course, this is not much different from a situation if she'd just arrived in an un-armed yacht. In either case, I think she'd simply lay low and record what is happening. She's not stupid and she'd know what her ship can or cannot do.

I'm afraid Honor is always going to be a tempting target. She’s made a lot of enemies in her lifetime. That's all the more reason she should always be armed. And I'm not just talking about her finger. More than Honor being a target, I’m afraid her entire immediate family are legitimate targets as well. Hamish, her mother and father, and her children.

When Honor retires, anybody want to bet that Beth won't gift her with a tricked out yacht or something? Who knows what the twinkle in Shannon's and Sonja's eyes will mean when they present her with her new toy. Heck, why would the RMN or GSN not clarify any new tricked out Yacht belonging to Honor as a navy auxiliary as well? Honor will always be a Steadholder. At any rate, I don't see danger frightening Honor away from traveling. And I don't see retirement meaning that she won't feel some sense of duty in a more political arena, which might include diplomatic missions. The galaxy trusts her.

@tlb: The thread isn't about establishing whether there already exists a Preston of the Space Ways, but whether there could be. And I have not heard anything yet that should or would dispose of the idea. There are already people who heed the call of justice and do what they can. Honor is just one such person. You seem to think the huge Hitchhiker’s galaxy is too small to have birthed more than one heart with the welfare of others coursing through its veins. I think Cachat and Zilwicki are other examples of such a heart.

Incidentally, I am surprised that the Solarian League has not already produced such an individual. And Torch could certainly produce one. If it ain't already.

Theemile wrote:While you can't control every situation, if there is any danger in the location Honor is traveling to, I'm fairly certain Manticore and/or (definitely) Grayson will find a spare division of heavy cruisers or battle cruisers which just happen to be going the same direction.

Then there's absolutely no point in Honor having an armed yacht in the first place. Why should she incur the cost of the extra maintenance?

tlb wrote:Basically, there is NO Preston of the Space Ways of the type that you seem to imagine. Perhaps there are people and ships that could come to the aid of someone attacked by a pirate, but it is unlikely to be someone just wandering around space for their own amusement. Captain Thomas Bachfisch and Pirates' Bane (or his other ship) come closest to that description, but they are being financed by Manticore's Admiralty as spies in the Silesian Confederation.

Captain Thomas Bachfisch, as presented when he re-enters Honor's life, is a successful shipping company owner with 2 freighters and sailing primarily in the area of the Silesian Confederacy. He owns (and captains one) freighters which were formerly armed auxiliaries for a regional power. Along with his regular shipping business, he collects bounty's and prize money on the side with both ships on any pirate who makes the mistake of trying to seize them. He's working in region which has a lot of pirate problems. He has a lot of experience in Silesian pirate fighting from his RMN days and his crews sound like they are all experienced spaces who are well qualified on "defending" their ships. And, of course, he did have SCN documentation being their naval armed auxiliaries. I'm guessing that he has now got the same sort of documents from SEM when they and IAE split Silesia. Probably from the Andeman navy as well.

penny wrote:
Incidentally, I am surprised that the Solarian League has not already produced such an individual. And Torch could certainly produce one. If it ain't already.

Wasn't going to happen. Neither the SLN nor OFS had any interest in armed do-gooders wandering around messing up their income streams. On the OFS end of that, said pirates might have ended up as contract labor for creating Protection Opportunities for OFS and FF to rescue systems. And disposable contractors at that....."Too bad the SLS Flea Bitten completely destroyed that pirate with loss of all hands in the Goose system, now we will never find out where they were getting supplies of fencing what they stole."

penny wrote:The thread isn't about establishing whether there already exists a Preston of the Space Ways, but whether there could be. And I have not heard anything yet that should or would dispose of the idea. There are already people who heed the call of justice and do what they can. Honor is just one such person. You seem to think the huge Hitchhiker’s galaxy is too small to have birthed more than one heart with the welfare of others coursing through its veins. I think Cachat and Zilwicki are other examples of such a heart.

The problem is not about answering the call of justice, but whether anyone would do that on their own time and using their own money. You are basically talking about an interstellar vigilante, and that is extremely unlikely to ever happen. All the people that you list are working as agents of governments, the same as Sergeant Preston of the Yukon. The people that feel such a call will find it easier to satisfy when working as part of an organization.

PS: Note whenever "Preston of the Space Ways" is mentioned, that he is being presented as a bad example that should not be emulated.

Brigade XO wrote:Captain Thomas Bachfisch, as presented when he re-enters Honor's life, is a successful shipping company owner with 2 freighters and sailing primarily in the area of the Silesian Confederacy. He owns (and captains one) freighters which were formerly armed auxiliaries for a regional power. Along with his regular shipping business, he collects bounty's and prize money on the side with both ships on any pirate who makes the mistake of trying to seize them. He's working in region which has a lot of pirate problems. He has a lot of experience in Silesian pirate fighting from his RMN days and his crews sound like they are all experienced spaces who are well qualified on "defending" their ships. And, of course, he did have SCN documentation being their naval armed auxiliaries. I'm guessing that he has now got the same sort of documents from SEM when they and IAE split Silesia. Probably from the Andeman navy as well.

Probably (since RMN BuInt was behind his ability to have them, and afford them, in the first place).

Though with Manticore and the Andies having firm control of all the Silesian systems piracy in the area should have taken a catastrophic nose dive. Even if cleaning out the corrupt politicians didn't remove all the pirate sponsors the lack of systems willing to turn a blind eye to providing support and markets for the pirates will quickly make their operations untenable. (And that's for the ones that didn't run afoul of the significantly increased naval presence -- as Manticore would have had at least Shrikes patrolling near the hyper limit of every system they controlled -- looking for pirates awaiting prey)

Most places just can't support any significant amount of piracy so any Preston of the Spaceways is likely to get very bored very quickly, sailing around endlessly with never a pirate in sight.

And Bachfisch might not be able to afford to keep operating armed freighters (or at least the fact he had outside funding would become apparent). He was able to make the economics work when Silesia was a fairly pirate ridden pesthole because, even though his ships cost more to operate (and could carry fewer goods) than a normal freighter, enough shippers were willing to pay a premium to ensure their good made it through.

(Extra cost because the weapons systems require extra crew and are extra things you need to maintain and replacement parts for; less cargo because the weapons and magazines eat into what would otherwise be cargo space)

But if the pirate threat drops the way I expect then he'll lose that selling point and be stuck competing on price against shippers with lower operating costs. Hard to maintain any profit that way...

Jonathan_S wrote:But if the pirate threat drops the way I expect then he'll lose that selling point and be stuck competing on price against shippers with lower operating costs. Hard to maintain any profit that way...

And with no extra funds from ONI to supplement his income, since there will be fewer places to spy on and less that ONI would need to covertly know about anyway.

On the other hand, Bachfisch may take his armed freighters elsewhere that would still pay for them. For example, outwards from the Talbott Quadrant to the Madras sector. With OFS gone, there should be fewer, well-armed warlords, but wannabe pirates may remain.

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:The thread isn't about establishing whether there already exists a Preston of the Space Ways, but whether there could be. And I have not heard anything yet that should or would dispose of the idea. There are already people who heed the call of justice and do what they can. Honor is just one such person. You seem to think the huge Hitchhiker’s galaxy is too small to have birthed more than one heart with the welfare of others coursing through its veins. I think Cachat and Zilwicki are other examples of such a heart.

The problem is not about answering the call of justice, but whether anyone would do that on their own time and using their own money. You are basically talking about an interstellar vigilante, and that is extremely unlikely to ever happen. All the people that you list are working as agents of governments, the same as Sergeant Preston of the Yukon. The people that feel such a call will find it easier to satisfy when working as part of an organization.

PS: Note whenever "Preston of the Space Ways" is mentioned, that he is being presented as a bad example that should not be emulated.

What's in a name? That which we call a vigilante by any other name would be backed by a navy. Well, unless backed by the once despicable SL or at one point Haven. Get the picture? Besides, I never suggested that Preston would not be backed by a navy.

I never suggested a Preston would use his own money either, although I do not see why not if money is no object. If Hauptman had a son, that son would have money to spit out of launch tubes. As far as using his own time, why not? A person like a Preston has convictions. Justice has possibly become personal to him; like if an entity like a Hauptman had a son and that son lost his father or sister to the same injustice that is plaguing the galaxy. I get the impression that a Preston is not born out of seed, but created out of need. Need forged in fire.

As far as the label of vigilante? Depends on who you ask. Those who see him as the hero in his description, or those who have been buried or imprisoned because of him. Either way, I doubt he worries about the naysayers. Honor has been called much worse.

I see a Preston as someone who fills a niche role. A James Bond of sorts. Someone who may be summoned by governments to help when nobody else will. Or when nobody else can really do anything because of a lack of hard evidence, etc. A Preston does not actually wish to fight, he wishes to succeed. Though he does not shy away from battle if need be. But if a Preston is summoned, or if he helps a system on his own accord, I would think said system would replace or repair whatever he needs. Your mileage may vary.

Depending upon who you ask, Honor's exploits are thought to be a bad example -- and should not be emulated -- by some people in her own government. But justice does not kowtow to public opinion.

tlb wrote:Basically, there is NO Preston of the Space Ways of the type that you seem to imagine. Perhaps there are people and ships that could come to the aid of someone attacked by a pirate, but it is unlikely to be someone just wandering around space for their own amusement. Captain Thomas Bachfisch and Pirates' Bane (or his other ship) come closest to that description, but they are being financed by Manticore's Admiralty as spies in the Silesian Confederation.

Actually, he earns most of his money with legit freight transports. He charges a bit more, but he usually arrives, and pays lower insurance fees, both due to his armor.