lyonheart wrote:Hi J6P,
From the textev, the SKM/SEM built SDP's in less than 18 month's before OB.
Actually during the first Haven war Manticore was building 8 million ton SD's in 18 month's and ~8.5 Mt SD's in ~20 month's according to the relevant pearls.
Homer type BC's took around 50 weeks, CA's about 25, CL's 20 weeks, and DD's 15 as I recall, with the DD example in one post being ~1% of the SD built in 18 or month's, before what type of yard needed to stated.
Current generation BC's aka 'Nike's' took 75-80 weeks, while Sag-C's were at least 30, IIRC, and Roland's were around 20.
Reviewing the relevant pearls regarding the nature of the SL might be useful in this thread.
L
No, SLN SDs are worse than nothing. Because people with SDs will think they can fight SDs -- or at least BCs, with them -- and they can't do that. And because by the time you have trained the crew for an SD, you could have built a modern BC from scratch.
I realize a lot of people think the manpower and training issues in the Honorverse are ridiculous. Nonetheless, the Honorverse does in fact work that way. It is not the real world, and analogies to real-world warfare only go so far. In the Honorverse, it really does take two years to turn a very bright college student into a serviceable low-level enlisted man in the RMN in the middle of a shooting war. And the RMN almost certainly was working faster than almost anybody else in the Honorverse at this.**/quote**
Are you for real? Say they do build their BC's from scratch in said miracle time of 2 years that not even the Manties can accomplish with the most efficient intact work force in the universe, ship design in hand, and orbital infrastructure, let alone someone without the above, but somehow got, from some fairy god mother, BC building plans with a nice fill in the color chart for rubes and nubes regarding ship building.
Where the HELL are you going to get the crews. After all you just stated said world can't get said people... Of course even some backwater named Monica had more than enough personnel to man, crew several BC/SD's just fine from their "obsolescent ships" thank you very mcuh. Even Masada did. Knock Knock, anyone home? Only a plot miracle twist saved our dear hero. Get real.
What is the fastest teaching method? ON THE JOB TRAINING. Not a stupid classroom. You must start somewhere. You start with what is fastest and cheapest. ON THE JOB TRAINING.
Of course the above is completely beside the point.
You stated: "Because people with SDs will think they can fight SDs -- or at least BCs, with them -- and they can't do that. "
1) You get the bloomdid Ex SLN SD's/BC's to make the other, not so nice neighbor, who really likes your money and real estate to think twice before attacking.
1a) If they do attack you have a better chance at survival. After all you do not have to obtain an outright victory. What you have to do is survive. A draw is perfectly acceptable. Slavery is not acceptable.
2) More importantly, if they do attack and you win, you now have the option of attacking eliminating the problem child. After all, nearly Every SL world has nothing. Those that do already have a giant step up on easy acquisitions.
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In J6P's defense, the times you're stating are for what is a powerful set of economies on virtually a war footing that have been building sizable numbers of warships for some time. The more you build something and the more often you build the same thing, the fast you get so what you're seeing here is a build time rate that you'd be hard pressed to find a single Sl yard that could match them, much less starting from scratch with brand new designs that are not based on anything that anyone in the League has even thought to building.
Let me give you an example. Around the turn of the 20th century, the UK and the French still saw each other and naval rivals and they were engaged in something of a naval arms race. England had the more experienced more sophisticated economy and they could turn out a Battleship of the most modern design in maybe a bit less than 2 years.
France on the other hand to build essentially the same ship would take closer to 5 years. This meant the French production rate as less than half that of the British and their ships were perpetually about a generation and a half behind their rivals.
Now the French weren't industrially impotent and they'd been building warships for centuries but it goes to show an example of what being really good at something can be as compared to just being average.
Most of the League worlds won't even come close to being average in this regard left to essentially their own devices. And while being able to build something is great, you don't need the same degree of capability to simply maintain one and operate one.
I also think the SD vs BC argument is interesting. The reason an SD like those used by the SLN has any vulnerability to a BC is that a larger number of smaller ships can maneuver to make it impossible for a SD to protect itself from down the throat or up the kilt shots. Even so a SD is incredibly tough so it's not an easy task at all for a group of lighter ships to take one on much less defeat it.
Now, take that same SD and give it some light supporting forces like a few DD's and CL's and the BC squadron's job becomes far more dangerous. They will essentially need to peel the escorts away from the SD's throat and kilt to get the open shots they need and all the time the SD is pounding them into scrap.
So saying owning a single SD isn't worthwhile because it's possible that a lot of BC's can take one down is really not getting the point. You really don't want to take on an SD with anything less than something less than a ship of the wall. Nobody is going to want to throw away an entire BC squadron like that unless they really have to.
With what is likely to occur in the League, there's going to be few systems that aren't going to desperately need a fleet of some kind and having an SD gives you a nice solid rock to form your fleet around. At the very least, it's going to make anyone who doesn't have something similar think long and hard before they mess with you.
