Reporters on Galton

penny wrote:The reporters would have been aboard ship with Honor. If they are not aboard ship with Honor then they can't really know everything that went on like the orders exchanged between commanders, the disagreements, etc. If they are not with Honor hearing things first hand, then they may as well not have come. Second hand information was not what they come for.

They may want to know that. But they do not get to know what commands are given inside a fleet. That's often operational security and you don't want any enemy to know how you communicate. Some poor captain may have also made an error of judgement that affected absolutely nothing, but the press could make a hash out of if they wanted. There's no reason for the press to have access to that information.

penny wrote:BTW, am I on another limb alone again when I say that I think that Honor might have an inkling that Audrey is of MAlign decent?

I know textev doesn't support it. I just have that ... feeling.

It's not impossible, but it would be far more likely for Zilwicki and Cachat to have clued on that than Honor. They were on Mesa while she was there too reporting on the Operation Houdini's effects. They may have noticed that she was not harmed.

Oh, BTW, she knew she was being told where to go and where not to go. So she knew her handlers knew something about what was going to happen. How does this match with Phoebe's assertion that they were part of the pacifist MAlign? The pacifist MAlign had penetrated the evil one and had given her this information? Did she stop and think why they wanted her there in the first place?

Then again, maybe this is something that will contribute to her awakening moment.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

penny wrote:The reporters would have been aboard ship with Honor. If they are not aboard ship with Honor then they can't really know everything that went on like the orders exchanged between commanders, the disagreements, etc. If they are not with Honor hearing things first hand, then they may as well not have come. Second hand information was not what they come for.

They may want to know that. But they do not get to know what commands are given inside a fleet. That's often operational security and you don't want any enemy to know how you communicate. Some poor captain may have also made an error of judgement that affected absolutely nothing, but the press could make a hash out of if they wanted. There's no reason for the press to have access to that information.

It isn't a matter of whether the reporters “get to know” those things. It is a matter that they need to know those things as far as Honor was concerned. And of course, Beth as well. For political and legal reasons. Again, Honor was trying to expose this entity. And she needed to be able to produce credible witnesses in case something went wrong. To be a credible witness, there needs to be firsthand knowledge of everything. Or the witness’ testimony will be inadmissible. “You weren't there!” If Honor could not ensure that, then where is the proof? And why bring them in the first place?

And someone please tell me where the GA would get incontrovertible evidence that they didn't bash in the wrong heads?

Anyway, something did go wrong. There was no smoking gun. There were no weapons of mass destruction. So now, can't the GA get sued? Where are the reparations?

I fully expected someone's counterargument – about whether lots of reporters should have been sent to Galton – to be to ensure at least one reporter lived. Markusscaber suggested one reporter per ship. That would ensure that at least one reporter survived, but Honor does not need a hostile witness. Doh! I get it now. LOL But isn't that cold and calculating? Virtually throwing the reporters under the bus. Yeah, I see where this conversation is headed.

WWHD?


Picture this. Honor's armsmen and a gaggle of reporters. And the reporters have to be vetted and checked for nanites. That would be a good opportunity to assassinate Honor. That would kill Honor and the mission. Even as a lawyer you do not want to introduce a hostile witness. Most reporters don't like Honor. Why would she even want to bring them? Remember the reporter at Pavel Young's duel? Honor couldn't catch a break from his admonishment of her actions regardless of what Young had actually done. That is the kind of reporters you want Honor, the Star Empire, Beth and the GA to rely upon? Audrey was fair and respected. Therefore, Audrey was enough.

penny wrote:Anyway, something did go wrong. There was no smoking gun. There were no weapons of mass destruction. So now, can't the GA get sued? Where are the reparations?

What are you talking about? The commanders in charge of Galton admitted everything and firing missiles AFTER a surrender clearly shows evil intent. The problem with Galton is that they also admitted to doing things that were actually committed by Darius.

Who do you expect will sue, the people that committed suicide by blowing up the forts, or the slave laborers?

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:Anyway, something did go wrong. There was no smoking gun. There were no weapons of mass destruction. So now, can't the GA get sued? Where are the reparations?

What are you talking about? The commanders in charge of Galton admitted everything and firing missiles AFTER a surrender clearly shows evil intent. The problem with Galton is that they also admitted to doing things that were actually committed by Darius.

Who do you expect will sue, the people that committed suicide by blowing up the forts, or the slave laborers?

What???

Is that true? Galton admitted to committing some of Darius' crimes? Could you post that please? The only thing I recall Galton admitting is that they are the Alignment.

It would make sense that they admit to all of the worse atrocities, since their goal is to be a cutout and a scapegoat.

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:Anyway, something did go wrong. There was no smoking gun. There were no weapons of mass destruction. So now, can't the GA get sued? Where are the reparations?

What are you talking about? The commanders in charge of Galton admitted everything and firing missiles AFTER a surrender clearly shows evil intent. The problem with Galton is that they also admitted to doing things that were actually committed by Darius.

Who do you expect will sue, the people that committed suicide by blowing up the forts, or the slave laborers?

penny wrote:What???

Is that true? Galton admitted to committing some of Darius' crimes? Could you post that please? The only thing I recall Galton admitting is that they are the Alignment.

It would make sense that they admit to all of the worse atrocities, since their goal is to be a cutout and a scapegoat.

Admittedly the admission was not verbal. Instead of denying the charges listed by Honor, they opened fire. However we know that in their data stores, there is documentation showing that Galton was responsible for Oyster Bay and that the serfs all believe that was true and so will confirm it. We expect the GA will find the documentation of other things (as we have discussed elsewhere), such as the workings of the biological nanites used for assassination.

markusschaber wrote:On the other hand, it makes sense to distribute them amongst the fleet, to reduce the risk of a single hit killing all of them. And it makes sense to put Havenite reporters on Havenite ships, Andermani reporters on Andermani ships etc. - most probably on board of those ship with high ranking flag officers.

And, of course, I'm talking about a handful of reporters, not more than 2 or 3 of each of the 4 nations, so we have about a dozen including O'Hanrahan.

penny wrote:I fully expected someone's counterargument – about whether lots of reporters should have been sent to Galton – to be to ensure at least one reporter lived. Markusscaber suggested one reporter per ship. That would ensure that at least one reporter survived, but Honor does not need a hostile witness. Doh! I get it now. LOL But isn't that cold and calculating? Virtually throwing the reporters under the bus. Yeah, I see where this conversation is headed.

You are the ONLY one suggesting that the fleet could have been sailing into a total disaster. As you can see, what Markusschaber suggested was they be spread out in ships that match their nationality (where possible), rather all in one ship in case it gets destroyed. So you are partially correct, it is better to have reporters in several ships, so that most can report on the battle; rather than have the total reporting staff be in only one ship, since even in the best run battle a ship can be lost.

Why do you imagine that every reporter, except Audrey, will be hostile?

Honor took that fleet to Galton based on a lot of research and investigation which was developed by Zilwicki and Cachat- a massive amount by Cachat- having gained that initial information from 1st interrogating "Mesan" POWs (more like terrorists but who's quibbling with that the PRHNinExcile was involved in genocide and these were the people who were helping refit and rearm them). Then they followed leads and came up with a place that was a waypoint in some of that and then there was the traffic control information that raised questions about where ships (trackable to MESA) were going and what was happening. Then they did a very careful and wide spread search of the places that would be within the reach of the ships making those trips and discovered Galton.
Galton had orders (at the very top-most level) to fight to the last and become a sacrifice for the Alignment. That was NOT known below the level of the contact with the Detweilers. But it did match the ethos and military tradition baked into the vast majority of Galton's inhabitants.
The records that will survive- are primed to implicate Galton with Oyster Bay but not leave any trails to any other place.
And that last attack after surrender including the destruction of so many more locations beyond what were actual fired at (suicide stuff) should effectively not leave any way to prove that Galton did not have any of the things the GA is looking for in the way of invisible starships. Too much destruction- much of that last round self inflicted.

penny wrote:It isn't a matter of whether the reporters “get to know” those things. It is a matter that they need to know those things as far as Honor was concerned. And of course, Beth as well. For political and legal reasons. Again, Honor was trying to expose this entity. And she needed to be able to produce credible witnesses in case something went wrong. To be a credible witness, there needs to be firsthand knowledge of everything. Or the witness’ testimony will be inadmissible. “You weren't there!” If Honor could not ensure that, then where is the proof? And why bring them in the first place?

Everything you're saying is true but it does not mean the press gets to know everything. Conversations with the enemy, how Honor demanded their surrender, how they rebuffed it, admitted to being the Alignment, and sent missiles as a reply, sure. How Honor dealt with the civilian habitats and avoided hitting them, sure. How the Galton Navy attacked after surrendering, that too. And how the GF is dealing with the POWs and investigations (at a high level), I agree.

Intra-fleet commands, no. There's no reason the press needs to know that and a lot of reasons why they should never learn that. It's not important to the goal and to how the GA is treating fairly the losers. Raw sensor data, much less. Fleet readiness status, before, during and after the battles? Forget it.

Anyway, something did go wrong. There was no smoking gun. There were no weapons of mass destruction. So now, can't the GA get sued? Where are the reparations?

Galton opened fire first. They started the hostilities. Neither they nor anyone else on their behalf gets to sue.

Oh, they will find some proof too. They will find a lot of people who were whisked away from Mesa during Houdini. They will find plans for the streak drive and very likely the nanites too. They will find the plans for the Cataphract, which will show where those were first created and then given to the League -- not to mention the People's Navy in Exile! -- to stir up problems.

They won't find everything and they will come to the conclusion that Galton was not the ultimate hideout. But there's no doubt they will prove Galton was a MAlign hideout.

I fully expected someone's counterargument – about whether lots of reporters should have been sent to Galton – to be to ensure at least one reporter lived. Markusscaber suggested one reporter per ship. That would ensure that at least one reporter survived, but Honor does not need a hostile witness. Doh! I get it now. LOL But isn't that cold and calculating? Virtually throwing the reporters under the bus. Yeah, I see where this conversation is headed.

I still think that reporters aboard warships during battle are the exception, not the rule. Audrey was special and maybe one or two more also got invited to travel aboard Invictus. The vast majority of embedded press was in the fleet train, possibly aboard Marine transports, which was staying in hyper while the naval battle was going on.

Picture this. Honor's armsmen and a gaggle of reporters.

Didn't happen.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:I still think that reporters aboard warships during battle are the exception, not the rule. Audrey was special and maybe one or two more also got invited to travel aboard Invictus. The vast majority of embedded press was in the fleet train, possibly aboard Marine transports, which was staying in hyper while the naval battle was going on.

It probably is true that it is unusual for reporters to be on a warship during a battle in the Honorverse, but this situation is the exception. A previously unknown force has been causing destruction across inhabited space and this fleet has been sent to drag them into public scrutiny; which requires witnesses.

I reject that Audrey is special, except to the extent that this story needs to get back to the public of the Solarian League. So the question is whether she is the only well known reporter that was not a stooge for the previous Permanent Senior Undersecretary of Information; if not then she should not be the only reporter from the League.

Also this of interest to all the members of the Grand Alliance, so there should be reporters from there too.

However, while there may be some news elements with the fleet train, no first line reporter would accept being kept in the dark during the battle. I agree that they should not be privy to command instructions, but they should have first hand knowledge of the communications with Galton.