Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Yes, but the fact that you sold shoes means that you won't need a lot of tech training to be replaced. As callous as it might sound, there was a fairly high percentage of people aboard those stations (Vulcan and Hisphaestus) who won't have to be trained to be replaced.

Sorry, the shoe salesman was on vacation, the guy who aligns grav comm systems on KH2 was not.

Hi kzt,

Do you really think they wouldn't give the guy with an important high pressure job like aligning grav comm systems time to unwind and regroup, that they would keep his nose to the grindstone until he starts screwing up or drooling?

Quite to the contrary, they don't want to lose his services, especially sinse the time and money invested in his training and experience is expensive. They would insist that he take his vacations and other breaks in a timely way just to keep him sharp.

Riding a horse hard and putting him away wet is stupid.

Don

n7axw wrote:Kzt does have a valid point. But even if it does take longer, my real point is that Manticore is not stuck with it's present situation forever. The manufacturing base is being rebuilt. The workforce is inexperienced, but will gain both training and experience on the job. The estimate given the queen in the aftermath of the Yawata strike was, IIRC, 4 years, by Hamish who I am sure did some consulting with people competent to judge such things.

But if it takes longer, say 5 or 6 years or even a bit longer, the basic point stands. I am not going to argue about arithmetic. And I might add, this was before anyone was aware of the help available from outside sources such as Beowulf.

Don

Your over looking probable long lead items like H-sails and nodes, H-generators and fusion reactors.

For example congress authorized the funds for the PCU Enterprise reactors in the 2013 defense budget. The Enterprise is not scheduled to be laid down until 2018.

saber964 wrote:Your over looking probable long lead items like H-sails and nodes, H-generators and fusion reactors.

For example congress authorized the funds for the PCU Enterprise reactors in the 2013 defense budget. The Enterprise is not scheduled to be laid down until 2018.

Well, yes. But that is reality. In the Honorverse people can expect that some dude can write code that works perfectly to convert a KH2 into a control node for a system defense system and doesn't require testing or systems integration. Along with grossly modifying the KH2 by installing a fusion reactor on it, which also doesn't require testing despite the modified KH2 being built by a crew that never has built one before, using equipment newly built (in a different star system with a totally different industrial infrastructure) by people who have never built anything even close to this before.

After all, it's just going to control thousands of missiles moving at 0.8c armed with huge nuclear warheads, it's not like something bad could happen if it malfunctioned.

SharkHunter wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:Not to mention the fact that the workers at bolthole are 100% trained

... on Havenite tech. Which is superior to the SL, etc. but inferior and incompatible with Manticore's at least short term, to the extent that Harkness was able to dominate a BC's mainframe with hacking from a hand-held computer. As good as Bolthole's workforce and Foraker are, that still doesn't mean, "send 'em the plans and they're up to speed on building RMN technology".

Being a little bit geeky to explain, let's say I'm a great Havenite dBase programmer, and now it's time to code in C#, or Rosie the Riveter and now I'm to use the tools required to cut titanium for the SR-71, or the composites on the FA-18 or newer. Sure, I'll get up to speed more quickly than George the gas station attendant, and "get it" in terms of quality control, but it's still not uber quick. Upgrading the Havenite tech isn't going to be an overnight operation, which is why short term they are probably going to exchange the knowledge for inertial compensator and micro-fusion tech for SD-P hulls, etc.

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That's the argument for Beowulf's tech being closer to Manticore's, but Haven's BoltHole PRODUCTION FACILITIES are able to mass-produce where Beowulf's are not.
Hence the compromise of Bolthole-produced hulls with Beowulf-produced fire-control and specialty modules.

Personally, I feel Manticore's (and Grayson's) OWN production will be back on line sooner than the early estimates suspect (something about a personal involvement for the production personnel). The High School, technical school and university engineering students have a BIT more personal motivation as well.

-- Stewart

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Could Beowulf come up with enough personnel to crew some of the captured wallers and add them to their own wall of battle in readiness for the unwanted attention of BF

I'm sure that transponders could be doctored to show that the vessels were Beowulfan not SLN.

CLA wrote:Granted this idea might have already been posted by someone else (there are 64 pages in this topic after all, so I would be surprised if it wasn't) BUT.....

What about installing remote control systems on board at least some of them(perhaps even a bow wall), as well as adding explosive materials(or additional fusion/fission material), and sending several at a time in towards the midst of a hostile fleet?

Think about it, 1 or 2 former Solly SD's head straight into the hostile fleet, and when there are a number of ships close enough to be affected.....
BOOM!

Even if only done once, it would cause the enemy to panic in a future engagement (provided anyone survived to spread the word about what happened during that first encounter).

Remote control devices, and the bow walls, have come up, mostly to create a force that sucks up fire. But the automation may be more than is appropriate in the Honorverse (though that seems to have narrative considerations dictating technical ones a bit too heavy-handedly for some); they'd demonstrate too little and/or too sloppy defenses to be plausible decoys for long; and they are far too unlikely to get close enough to be useful fireships that way anyway.

George J. Smith wrote:Could Beowulf come up with enough personnel to crew some of the captured wallers and add them to their own wall of battle in readiness for the unwanted attention of BF

I'm sure that transponders could be doctored to show that the vessels were Beowulfan not SLN.

I imagine they may be able to thin out existing crews or call up reservists to fill in a small number of them. But then they'd have other crews hurting for people, personnel getting used to one another and some new equipment throughout the fleet, and whole new crews shaking down aboard those few ships, when they are in for a serious attack in weeks.

So it may not be worth it all in all.

For something for use in between that fight and crewing new-build ships, LAC's, and system defense platforms... I can see the possibility, but that itself may not be a very wide window, and many parts of those ships may be better removed and reused in those ships, LAC's, and system defense platforms. SLN fighting systems are built to an antiquated tactical model, but the general tech base is still great, so I'm sure that, say, the personnel accommodations and alpha nodes are fine stuff for recycling.

JeffEngel wrote:

CLA wrote:Granted this idea might have already been posted by someone else (there are 64 pages in this topic after all, so I would be surprised if it wasn't) BUT.....

What about installing remote control systems on board at least some of them(perhaps even a bow wall), as well as adding explosive materials(or additional fusion/fission material), and sending several at a time in towards the midst of a hostile fleet?

Think about it, 1 or 2 former Solly SD's head straight into the hostile fleet, and when there are a number of ships close enough to be affected.....
BOOM!

Even if only done once, it would cause the enemy to panic in a future engagement (provided anyone survived to spread the word about what happened during that first encounter).

Remote control devices, and the bow walls, have come up, mostly to create a force that sucks up fire. But the automation may be more than is appropriate in the Honorverse (though that seems to have narrative considerations dictating technical ones a bit too heavy-handedly for some); they'd demonstrate too little and/or too sloppy defenses to be plausible decoys for long; and they are far too unlikely to get close enough to be useful fireships that way anyway.

Also, specifically on the bow wall -- Storm from the Shadows mentioned that "There's no way they could've refitted a bow wall without completely gutting her forward impeller rooms".

That's a lot of work for a slow expendable target.


Probably more work, for that alone, that building a free flying decoy (ghost rider or Lorelei) to draw that same missile fire.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Also, specifically on the bow wall -- Storm from the Shadows mentioned that "There's no way they could've refitted a bow wall without completely gutting her forward impeller rooms".

That's a lot of work for a slow expendable target.


Probably more work, for that alone, that building a free flying decoy (ghost rider or Lorelei) to draw that same missile fire.[/quote]

Speaking of gutting ... I've often wondered how much time/treasure/effort it would take to convert an SD to an SD(P). Depending on the age of the design, if it was possible to gut the after section to give it even a modest pod capacity it could be an important force modifier.

In one of DW's Pearls, he estimated roughly 23 months for a keel-up SD(P); if a conversion took anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of that (call it 18-19 months on the outside) it might be a viable alternative. Again, you'd have to factor in how much work would be involved, if the age of the hull made it worth it in the first place, would you want to add in the newer Mantie tech (advanced compensators, sensors, and all the other goodies which drop crew levels by half), etc. If you were looking to give Beowulf some teeth in the immediate short term it might be worth the candle.