Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

SharkHunter wrote:Given that we've already agreed they are floating space junk but since the thread isn't dying and we're still trying to find a use for them...

Could they be used JUST as CM missile carriers, using the logic we were thinking of on another thread, though it would take the ability to launch tube based but longer ranged canister style missiles like we were discussing on another thread (with three to four Vipers apiece). It'd still be a rough go to get crew sizes down to mostly an "in-system" automatable usage like some giant AI/drone, but (think: Beowulf defense) it would cause a huge freak out if all of the captured SLN SD's were used as a defensive countermissile force say several million KM in front of the BSDF who could shoot past them with DDms, etc.

That would give the CM's what, a 10MM KM range in front of a more stationary fleet of defenders? before the close in CMs even had to bother. And if you lose all the Solarian SD's, gee, they didn't cost much.

IIRC, Manticoran shipboard launchers are much quicker cycling than the Sollie ones. The current SLN launcher takes about 30 seconds to cycle. The old RMN launcher refitted onto the captured DuQuesne SDs cycled in 17 seconds and that was a decade ago.

Canisters don't come with a long range missile drive. They may not have any drives at all, relying on the launcher to get it beyond the ship's wedge perimeter. In addition, SLN ships do not have fire control optimised for CMs operating at such ranges.

2 things, 1st there will be a (probable fairly large) influx of new recruits for the Manti Fleet from the Talbot cluster. Before, the Mantis were dealing with recruiting issues from only 3 planets (2 poorly populated in human terms) & later a few other like San Martin. Yes, the Talbot is behind technologically compared to Manti or even Haven standards but, like the point of Slave education, any star faring systems (which they are) has to have the basics of starship training, even if only to run their own merchies. This being said, the Talbot trainees will have a much closer understanding of the solly equipment than the Manti equipment and would be more suited to a training center based on Spindle to train them on the captured Solly ships. All of the Solly escorts (DDs-CAs) can easily be crewed with skeleton crews and transferred to the Silesian territory, where they can be crewed by locals with Manti officers. 2) The SDs, I just realized I failed to specify something earlier, I don’t suggest crewing ALL of the captured SDs, just as many as can be crewed, 1-2 dozen perhaps. 6 full crews from the Talbot clusters along with 18 minimal skeleton crews. Actually my thought was 24 “operations crews” (the minimum skeleton crews needed to make the ship “look/act” operational) with 6 “support crews” (the full crew needed to fully man 1 ship minus that of the operations crew). Each set of operations crews would be assigned 1 SD (chosen from the best units captured). 4 operations crews would be teamed up with 1 support crew who would be given time to become familiar with each of the 4 ships (1 at a time). After that the support crew would be rotated between their 4 ships giving each ship a chance to be the “active” ship while the others are decoys or more aptly “red herrings”. The 4 ships would operate and maneuver as a squadron, the "operation only" staying under the protection of the "active" ship. This way if it leaked out that not all the ships are full crewed, it would still be impossible to tell which one was, and as I said, even 1 Nevada is a major threat to any FF BC raid in the cluster. These 6(or so) “squadrons” would then be sent to patrol the cluster until more modern ships can be sent to secure the area. (Neither the RMN or GSN currently have the ability to produce such ships at the moment (use what you have worry about "better" latter, when you can). As for the other hundreds of SDs. Mothball them until you have the facilities to scrap them or you need them to replace some of the 1st 24 you selected, & while mothballed, they would serve as floating missile depot ships retaining their missile loads until needed by their operating sisters (or someone finds a way to modify them to be useful in non-solly ships).

--snipping--

munroburton wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Could they be used JUST as CM missile carriers, using the logic we were thinking of on another thread, though it would take the ability to launch tube based but longer ranged canister style missiles like we were discussing on another thread (with three to four Vipers apiece)....

That would give the CM's what, a 10MM KM range in front of a more stationary fleet of defenders? before the close in CMs even had to bother. And if you lose all the Solarian SD's, gee, they didn't cost much.

...
Canisters don't come with a long range missile drive. They may not have any drives at all, relying on the launcher to get it beyond the ship's wedge perimeter. In addition, SLN ships do not have fire control optimised for CMs operating at such ranges.

Known. On another thread, we were positing that there is just about enough space in a capital missile's "warhead" space to use 3-4 Vipers, even though there's not really a method to the madness that would making the attempt work. So I'm sorta grafting that idea in here, but instead of the Mk-23 size missile body, which would give extreme CM interception ranges, I'm saying "front end of whatever you can launch from these old tubes", at about the 6MM Km range of Sollie missiles, plus the reported 3.1MM Km range of the CM missile itself. It'd likely have to be sort of a 'Harkness Hack' if you catch my drift.

MAD-4A wrote:... any star faring systems (which they are) has to have the basics of starship training, even if only to run their own merchies. ...

Slight flaw in your logic: Most of the Talbot Quadrant is only "space faring" not "Star Faring."

The Rembrandt Association shipping cartel provides the majority of interstellar shipping capability. Systems like Nuncio have a half dozen old-style LACs and no hyper-capable shipping at all.

A second flaw in your logic: By Oct 1922 PD, most of the Talbot Quadrant should have LAC Wings in place with simulators to bring local recruits up to speed on RMN tech and traditions. They either have a CLAC semi-permanently assigned or space stations configured as LAC support bases (a la Tequila at the beginning of the Second Haven War.)

Every day that passes, the Talbot Quadrant has less and less need for preserving the remains of Adm Crandall's task force, or importing the remains of Adm Filareta's Fleet. The same is probably true of Ninth Fleet's bailiwick in Silesia, with far less need for defense against SLN raiders.

The minor detail that those LACs have an 18 month reactor life with 36 months to a new reactor, plus no replacement nodes or any other spare part is a kind of a big problem that David is handwaving away.

Weird Harold wrote:Slight flaw in your logic: Most of the Talbot Quadrant is only "space faring" not "Star Faring."

So they fly in space with rocks & sticks? - lol - They still aren't a bunch of uneducated hunter/gatherers who don’t know what a button is. They have the basic tech base.

Weird Harold wrote:A second flaw in your logic: By Oct 1922 PD, most of the Talbot Quadrant should have LAC Wings in place with simulators to bring local recruits up to speed on RMN tech and traditions.

not a flaw but an assist. besides, regardless of what the realities are due to tech advantage, a LAC squadron isn't a deterrent to BC raids but an encouragement, where seeing a squadron of SDs roaming around would make the BCs turn quickly around and LEAVE . While later on (& before OB) it may be an advantage to snooker the BCs into the thick mud, with the GA missiles shortage, it would be better, at this point, to save the ammo & just shoo FF away, then you don't have to resupply your LACs and FF doesn't loose a bunch of obsolete BCs you won't have to worry about later anyway.

SharkHunter wrote:Known. On another thread, we were positing that there is just about enough space in a capital missile's "warhead" space to use 3-4 Vipers, even though there's not really a method to the madness that would making the attempt work. So I'm sorta grafting that idea in here, but instead of the Mk-23 size missile body, which would give extreme CM interception ranges, I'm saying "front end of whatever you can launch from these old tubes", at about the 6MM Km range of Sollie missiles, plus the reported 3.1MM Km range of the CM missile itself. It'd likely have to be sort of a 'Harkness Hack' if you catch my drift.

I would guess that you won't be able to fit more than a single counter missile at the end of a Solarian capital missile drive. So the best that you could get out of it is the Cataphract, with a single counter-missile.

Mad-4A,

If you put together every single spacer from the Talbot Cluster, you might have enough people to man a single Manticoran destroyer. The Talbot cluster simply doesn't have very many ships, and civilian crews are very small compared to warships.

You won't start getting significant numbers of recruits from the Talbot Cluster for a few more years, as they come out of the revamped education system. In the meantime, the makeshift LAC training camps will suffice in the Cluster.

SWM wrote:Mad-4A,

If you put together every single spacer from the Talbot Cluster, you might have enough people to man a single Manticoran destroyer. The Talbot cluster simply doesn't have very many ships, and civilian crews are very small compared to warships.

You won't start getting significant numbers of recruits from the Talbot Cluster for a few more years, as they come out of the revamped education system. In the meantime, the makeshift LAC training camps will suffice in the Cluster.

I would argue your math at bit, SWM. We know that one of the poorest and least-developed systems (Nuncio) has around 10-12 Old-fashioned LACs--figuring crews of 15 each (less automation) plus 'releif' crews, that's a minimum of 200 'Space navy' folks, and I imagine that most of the rest of the poorer Talbott systems have at least that many.

And the RTU worlds do have hyper-capable warships, IIRC, at least to LC levels, so there are probably 3,000-5,000 naval personnel with some capability in the Talbott Sector.

Of course, that is not enough to man even one Sollie SD, so your point is valid.

And while it will be years before Talbotters begin to play a role in terms of Officers and the more technical areas, I suspect that areas that need less skill or specialized training will be offered. For example, Cook, Logistics, Hydroponics, laser crew (for those most skilled in the Talbott SDF's), and other roles that don't require higher-level technological training.

You're right, Hutch, I underestimated the number of spacers in the Talbot cluster. Your estimate is probably closer--not enough to man one Solarian superdreadnought.