Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

Somtaaw wrote:snip

Now before anyone jumps to try and say "well thats merchant ships, not Navy!" TextEvidence to support this for NAVAL ships is also in HH7&8, where Honor + other prisoners with only a few minutes to familiarize with Havenite pinnaces, not only:
a) flew down to the planet on controlled, unpowered entry to the atmosphere
b) ran ground attack on Styx, and took out a full up impeller-drive dispatch boat, with pinnace missiles.


With all that said; using the SLN warships is definitely possible, for just about any purpose, from evacuation ship, to tugboat, to plain derping around ramming into asteroids for lulz. Without making use of dedicated training.

Vince wrote:Regarding the PRH pinances in the book In Enemy Hands:

You are correct regarding your point a, the escapees only had a limited amount of time to familiarize themselves with the pinannces.

However your point b is incorrect, the escapees had months on Styx to familiarize themselves with the pinannces before they executed both the ground attack on Styx and took out the dispatch boat.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Point of Order - the only pinnace that was used in IEH was the one that was blown up by the nuclear mines creating the EMP that allowed the attack shuttles that Honor and Company used to attack the planet (eventually).

You're right. Honor and Company used assault shuttles to leave Tepes, and later attack Styx and the dispatch boat. Note however, that the assault shuttles were equipped with impeller drives, not just reaction engines and counter-grav:

Echoes of Honor, Chapter 24 wrote:"Talk to me about accel curves, Gianna!" Metcalf commanded.
"We've got the velocity advantage now, but she's got a deeper compensator sump and a hell of a lot more brute power than us, Ma'am. She can pull about five hundred and thirty gees to our four hundred, but our present velocity is about four thousand KPH—make it sixty-seven KPS—and hers is only about twenty-seven KPS. Current range is one-three-point-three-five k-klicks, and she'll match our velocity in a little over thirty-one seconds, so we'll equalize at range one-two-point-seven-two k-klicks. After that, she'll pull away from us at one and a quarter KPS-squared."

Boldface is my emphasis.

.

CLA wrote:OH!

What if one of them was refitted sufficiently to allow it to be manned and operated entirely by.....


TREECATS!

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Not going to happen.

BTW -- CLA welcome to the forum, if no one else hasn't yet, the first virtual drink is on the house.

-- Stewart

Bill Woods wrote:I think the scarecrow idea has potential. Honor is worried that system defense missiles aren't "a visible deterrent", and she's right — an invisible deterrent is an oxymoron.

Put skeleton crews from the Beowulf SDF on ex-SLN ships and move them to Beowulf. Designate them Beowulf's 2nd Fleet and drive them around a bit where SL observers can see them, apparently working up. Meanwhile, the real defense of the system is in a score of parked freighters loaded with missile pods.

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This one has a limited potential, like Patton's invasion force of plywood tanks that (in theory) kept the German Panzer Divisions at Calais rather than being released to Normandy.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

Bill Woods wrote:I think the scarecrow idea has potential. Honor is worried that system defense missiles aren't "a visible deterrent", and she's right — an invisible deterrent is an oxymoron.

Put skeleton crews from the Beowulf SDF on ex-SLN ships and move them to Beowulf. Designate them Beowulf's 2nd Fleet and drive them around a bit where SL observers can see them, apparently working up. Meanwhile, the real defense of the system is in a score of parked freighters loaded with missile pods.

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This one has a limited potential, like Patton's invasion force of plywood tanks that (in theory) kept the German Panzer Divisions at Calais rather than being released to Normandy.

-- Stewart

Ah yes FUSAG and Operation Fortitude

n7axw wrote:"kzt"]"n7axw"]I wonder if I am graduating to "old sweat" status around here. These light bulb ideas for using the captured SDs are looking dimmer all the time.

Guys, there are any number of uses to which these ships could be put. But for any idea to be truly useable, you have to ask yourself whether or not meeting a need in the advocated manner is truly the best, most cost effective way of achieving the desired end. No one really can afford to do it any other way. In Manticore's case, that was true even before OB. It's even more true now.

Using the captured SLN ships cannot be regarded as a goal that is worthwhile in and of itself.

Don

I want to provide 100 generally friendly systems with a minimally effective defense, if they are wiling to exert themselves, against an attack on the inhabited planets by pirates up to a SLN BC squadron scale threat. I do not want to provide them with current military gear that could be reverse engineered or used to attack me. I want to do this in the next 6 months. I propose offering them 3 SLN SDs each. You would accomplish this with what?[/quote]

The problem here is threefold. One, which has been noted many times, is that the SDs are personnel heavy which means many of the systems you are proposing to give the SDs to would be unable to man them. Secondly, without adequate support structure, they revert to museum status fairly quickly. Finally they are not useful against pirates. Too slow.

If I were a government from whom naval protection had been removed, I would be looking to start smaller. What Manticore could do is provide training for people from the systems you mentioned for both support and shipboard requirments.

Then light warships from BC status down becomes realistic. And they wouldn't have to be Solarian. Older ships such as Star Knights, Warlords, Sultans, Homers, and almost anyone's destroyers could be used.

That could provide actual protection against pirates. As for dealing with other threats, they would have to have a longer term buildup. In the meantime enter into a defensive treaty with the GA and have a dispatch boat ready to run for help available.

Don[/quote]


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The Spindle ships, assuming equal distribution in the fleet, at lease 12 to 18 of each type of small-boy survived (CA / CL / DD). The supply and repair ships in the fleet train also survived so there are repair parts and ammo available (for a short time).
The x-SLN CA's / CL's / DD's should be a step up from the Talbot-built LAC's and at least equivalent to the local planetary Navy's DD's and CL's.
A modern offensive force they are NOT, but still good as pirate-thumpers and a good stop-gap until the Manty yards are rebuilt for new construction.
I would attach a Pinnace / LAC / DD FTL comm unit though. there MUST be space for a LAC / pinnace sized FTL comm array.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:The Spindle ships, assuming equal distribution in the fleet, at lease 12 to 18 of each type of small-boy survived (CA / CL / DD). The supply and repair ships in the fleet train also survived so there are repair parts and ammo available (for a short time).
The x-SLN CA's / CL's / DD's should be a step up from the Talbot-built LAC's and at least equivalent to the local planetary Navy's DD's and CL's.
A modern offensive force they are NOT, but still good as pirate-thumpers and a good stop-gap until the Manty yards are rebuilt for new construction.
I would attach a Pinnace / LAC / DD FTL comm unit though. there MUST be space for a LAC / pinnace sized FTL comm array.

-- Stewart

A BC squadron will crush them like a bug. No no, does not achieve the objective.

kzt wrote:"stewart"]

The Spindle ships, assuming equal distribution in the fleet, at lease 12 to 18 of each type of small-boy survived (CA / CL / DD). The supply and repair ships in the fleet train also survived so there are repair parts and ammo available (for a short time).
The x-SLN CA's / CL's / DD's should be a step up from the Talbot-built LAC's and at least equivalent to the local planetary Navy's DD's and CL's.
A modern offensive force they are NOT, but still good as pirate-thumpers and a good stop-gap until the Manty yards are rebuilt for new construction.
I would attach a Pinnace / LAC / DD FTL comm unit though. there MUST be space for a LAC / pinnace sized FTL comm array.

-- Stewart

A BC squadron will crush them like a bug. No no, does not achieve the objective.[/quote]


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The purpose is NOT to have x-SLN DD's and CA's go up against SLN BC's, but rather
(1) provide a credible presence against PIRATES and such irritants as New Tuscany
(2) The Gladiator CA's are approx. equivalent to Starknights (without FTL); Terekhov used a RMN pinnace to add FTL to the Nuncian LAC's; It SHOULD be able to be mod'ed onto the Gladiators and other suitable x-SLN small-boys
(3) provides a live training platform for the Talbot Quadrant system navies to exercise on something larger than a LAC
(4) provides an additional messenger ship to call in the BIG BOYs if dispatch boats are not available.
(5) The x-SLN Ramparts are likely about equivalent or better (again without FTL) to Reprise and Devastation -- 2 of the Talbot Quadrant 40+ year old DD's / CL's

Need I go on ?

They are not intended as a final solution. They ARE an available interim until the Manty / Grayson Yards start cranking out new domestic production.
We have already discussed in other threads that the Talbot Quadrant Yards are NOT going to be upgraded anytime soon to production levels.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:The purpose is NOT to have x-SLN DD's and CA's go up against SLN BC's, but rather
(1) provide a credible presence against PIRATES and such irritants as New Tuscany
(2) The Gladiator CA's are approx. equivalent to Starknights (without FTL); Terekhov used a RMN pinnace to add FTL to the Nuncian LAC's; It SHOULD be able to be mod'ed onto the Gladiators and other suitable x-SLN small-boys
(3) provides a live training platform for the Talbot Quadrant system navies to exercise on something larger than a LAC
(4) provides an additional messenger ship to call in the BIG BOYs if dispatch boats are not available.
(5) The x-SLN Ramparts are likely about equivalent or better (again without FTL) to Reprise and Devastation -- 2 of the Talbot Quadrant 40+ year old DD's / CL's

No, my clearly staged objective was provide ships to a large number of systems (100 or so, to be precise) to protect against a direct attack on the populated planets. Pirates in your system are roughly akin to taggers writing slogans on walls at night in your city: They are undesirable and a sign that you don't have as much control as you want, but they are not a significant threat to the population.

If they are able to seriously threaten or conquer the planet that makes them a direct threat to the population of the system.

I care somewhat about undesirable powers taking over random unaligned systems, this tends to involve large scale death of innocents. Pirate bases are highly annoying, and in general I like to make the lives of people who want to expand themselves by conquest of random unaligned systems as difficult as I can without putting a lot of effort into it. So, no I don't really care about trying to protect the hyperlimit and merchant ships in random systems. Most any system can build a few dozen LACs and can protect it themselves if they care.

If someone wants the RMN to provide security to their system, then that is a very different matter. That isn't done for free, and they need to send someone who is able to negotiate.

1) Break up Sollie ships.

2) Recycle the materials.

3) Build Manty ships without needing to mine new materials.