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Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by biochem   » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:41 am

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George J. Smith wrote:Do the Honorverse equivalent of spiking the weapons of the SDs, then load them up with the Solly POWs and escort them back to Solly space.


That transfers the burden of looking after the POWs to the SL and also shows the GA as being benign towards the Solly spacers.

The spiked SDs would not be usable and the spacers would bring back to the SL the truth of just how out gunned the SLN really is.


I wouldn't want to send back trained spacers. That's actually a useful resource to the SL.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by George J. Smith   » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:18 am

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biochem wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:Do the Honorverse equivalent of spiking the weapons of the SDs, then load them up with the Solly POWs and escort them back to Solly space.


That transfers the burden of looking after the POWs to the SL and also shows the GA as being benign towards the Solly spacers.

The spiked SDs would not be usable and the spacers would bring back to the SL the truth of just how out gunned the SLN really is.


I wouldn't want to send back trained spacers. That's actually a useful resource to the SL.



I think the majority of those spacers would be submitting resignation papers as soon as they got home. If they where not allowed to resign I think there would be a mutiny or two after the ships they were assigned to were sent out.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by Bill Woods   » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:10 pm

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George J. Smith wrote:Do the Honorverse equivalent of spiking the weapons of the SDs, then load them up with the Solly POWs and escort them back to Solly space.

That transfers the burden of looking after the POWs to the SL and also shows the GA as being benign towards the Solly spacers.

The spiked SDs would not be usable and the spacers would bring back to the SL the truth of just how out gunned the SLN really is.

I don't know about disposing of ships this way, but there's PR value in releasing, say, 1000 POWs per month. Start with anyone whose homeworld has seceded from the League, and anyone who qualifies for a medical discharge, then add a randomish selection from all over the League. Word will get around about the conditions in which their shipmates are being held, that the Mandarins are lying about Honor firing first, etc.
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Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
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Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by n7axw   » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:40 am

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Bill Woods wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:Do the Honorverse equivalent of spiking the weapons of the SDs, then load them up with the Solly POWs and escort them back to Solly space.

That transfers the burden of looking after the POWs to the SL and also shows the GA as being benign towards the Solly spacers.

The spiked SDs would not be usable and the spacers would bring back to the SL the truth of just how out gunned the SLN really is.

I don't know about disposing of ships this way, but there's PR value in releasing, say, 1000 POWs per month. Start with anyone whose homeworld has seceded from the League, and anyone who qualifies for a medical discharge, then add a randomish selection from all over the League. Word will get around about the conditions in which their shipmates are being held, that the Mandarins are lying about Honor firing first, etc.


Probably best to treat 'em according to the Deneb accords and send 'em home upon the end of the conflict. Provide opportunities for your POWs to write home and tell their families they're ok. Then send lots of poker decks along with chips to prevent them from dying of terminal boredom... :lol:

Don
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:38 am

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n7axw wrote:
Bill Woods wrote:I don't know about disposing of ships this way, but there's PR value in releasing, say, 1000 POWs per month. Start with anyone whose homeworld has seceded from the League, and anyone who qualifies for a medical discharge, then add a randomish selection from all over the League. Word will get around about the conditions in which their shipmates are being held, that the Mandarins are lying about Honor firing first, etc.


Probably best to treat 'em according to the Deneb accords and send 'em home upon the end of the conflict. Provide opportunities for your POWs to write home and tell their families they're ok. Then send lots of poker decks along with chips to prevent them from dying of terminal boredom... :lol:

Don
I'm in favor of the idea someone (can't remember who) had a while ago for POWs. If a POW's home system withdraws from the League give them to the choice to return home in exchange for a parole not to rejoin the League's armed forces.

Sure, some percentage of them will lie and slip back into the remaining League to rejoin (and some others will stay true to their oath to the SLN and refuse parole); but letting POWs free once their home system effectively pulls out of the war should help your diplomatic efforts to (as peacefully as possible) split the League into smaller, friendlier, entities.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by SharkHunter   » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:03 pm

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Brain just turned on. I Know what to do with those dang useless captured SD's. Given that Manticoran space infra structure just got the berjeezus blown out of it, 100 captured SD's has about 800 MILLION tons of useful whatever such as...

Fusion plants, lots and lost of armor. Bulkheading, wiring connectivity. We need a whole bunch of PDLC's and sidewall generators to keep the new -yards safer from long distance missile attack. More and better planetary defensive "tugs" (AKA I'd bet an SD's impeller wedge would do a nifty job, attached to a smaller ship)

AND we need to train a whole new set of people in how to build and repair starships. So let's start by having them take starships apart and transport those useful bits to where our construction crews that are learning to build warships by building the yards to build ships can put those things to good use.

In other words. Strip those suckers to the bone to replace what Oyster Bay broke. Even the "bones" are likely usable for station framework members, etc.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by SWM   » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:17 pm

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Each ship you are trying to take apart requires a full shipyard. And it will take nearly as long to take it apart as to build a new one. All of the equipment you are taking off the ship has different specs from the ones Manticore uses.

You could do it, but it would require fewer people, use less yardspace, and have better equipment to just build new ones.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by SharkHunter   » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:05 pm

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SWM wrote:Each ship you are trying to take apart requires a full shipyard. And it will take nearly as long to take it apart as to build a new one. All of the equipment you are taking off the ship has different specs from the ones Manticore uses.

You could do it, but it would require fewer people, use less yardspace, and have better equipment to just build new ones.
Point is "there is no shipyard, nor equipment, nor workers", and I was assuredly not thinking of transporting the SD's from Spindle to Manticore. That's half of the weight right there, aka 48 ships x 8MM Ktons. Pretty much what I'm finally suggesting as an exhausted thought track is, since you've got to piece the things to destroy them anyway, there's useful bits that can be bolted and wired together to up-train a local work force. It's not up to pre-Oyster Bay Manticoran standards by any means, but it's a whole lot of something better than they can get by sitting on their hands waiting for "yards to build yards with". Maybe a gutted "SD on the half shell" is close to the right size to make four 'docking cradles' for DDs, CA's, etc., and what use to be the fusion room for the engines is now powering uber-arc welder and mass-mover type stuff. Make a hell of a fleet base, and when the real yards start coming on line, you get full shipbuilding modules, and start swapping out the less useful bits or make the "conversion" into a repair/resupply base only.
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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:08 pm

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Do forgive my emblazoning of your prose for emphasis.
SWM wrote:Each ship you are trying to take apart requires a full shipyard. And it will take nearly as long to take it apart as to build a new one. All of the equipment you are taking off the ship has different specs from the ones Manticore uses.

You could do it, but it would require fewer people, use less yardspace, and have better equipment to just build new ones.

Perhaps so, if the imperative is to reclaim parts. Which would be the imperative if recycling your own ships.

But these are useless Solly ships and useless Solly parts. With the exception of their grasers which may or may not be of interest to the RMN, or other SIGs on Manticore.

Therefore, I would surmise that total metals recycling would be the imperative. And the Breakers would be a specialized operation deploying huge behemoths of machinery at hand, employing grasers even, in a controlled manner, to cut through ships like butter. I wouldn't imagine that to take very long at all, once a hulk is "conditioned" for reclamation - eliminating such hazards as explosions.

Steel reclamation operations here on Earth may shock you.

And these metals may be viable for other enterprises even if not for ship building.

My question is whether reclamation yards, the Breakers, were destroyed as well?

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Re: Light bulb Captured Solly fleet
Post by SWM   » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:18 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:
SWM wrote:Each ship you are trying to take apart requires a full shipyard. And it will take nearly as long to take it apart as to build a new one. All of the equipment you are taking off the ship has different specs from the ones Manticore uses.

You could do it, but it would require fewer people, use less yardspace, and have better equipment to just build new ones.
Point is "there is no shipyard, nor equipment, nor workers", and I was assuredly not thinking of transporting the SD's from Spindle to Manticore. That's half of the weight right there, aka 48 ships x 8MM Ktons. Pretty much what I'm finally suggesting as an exhausted thought track is, since you've got to piece the things to destroy them anyway, there's useful bits that can be bolted and wired together to up-train a local work force. It's not up to pre-Oyster Bay Manticoran standards by any means, but it's a whole lot of something better than they can get by sitting on their hands waiting for "yards to build yards with". Maybe a gutted "SD on the half shell" is close to the right size to make four 'docking cradles' for DDs, CA's, etc., and what use to be the fusion room for the engines is now powering uber-arc welder and mass-mover type stuff. Make a hell of a fleet base, and when the real yards start coming on line, you get full shipbuilding modules, and start swapping out the less useful bits or make the "conversion" into a repair/resupply base only.

So basically you are suggesting building new shipyards just for the purpose of taking apart these Solarian ships. My counter-point would be that if you can make those shipyards, they would be better used to build a new ship than taking apart an old one. It would use the same number of people, end up with better equipment, and result in a new ship rather than a hulk.

Yes, materials can be scavenged from those ships. The breakers do that all the time, routinely. Sending ships to the breakers is exactly what a lot of us have been saying all along. But to remove and reuse things like PDLCs, weapons, piping, wiring, fusion generators, etc. like you suggested takes a full shipyard which is better used to building new ships.
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