** ACTI Spoiler ** Hints on discovery of the Junction

Topic subject is misleading, because it's not exactly a hint. The hint was in one of the earlier books, with Travis musing about the navigational difficulties in the MBS.

I've speculated before that there was no way someone would have missed the Resonance Zone in the first place, and the authors have confirmed that they didn't... only that the scientists had wrongly attributed the effects to a different cause. They also neatly added two reasons why that should be: because current knowledge said that Junctions were impossible in binary systems and because it was far stronger than any RZ had a right to be.

We do know from AAC that the MWHJ does indeed have the strongest RZ anywhere, to the point that navigation becomes hazardous. And that's what is happening in the early SKM history.

Only it isn't with Manticore-A. We did speculate in the RZ discussions that it could shift from one star to the other, depending on the orbits of the two and whether the Junction orbited the common barycentre or it was attached to one of the stars. So, by accepting that the Junction orbits the two stars together, then the RZ can shift. And if it is now resonating with Manticore-B and its quarter-to-half a million people living there, it could indeed go unnoticed.

I'm idly wondering how exactly it orbits. The Junction in Honor's time is 7 light-hours from Manticore-A, but Manticore-B is 13 light-hours. If the Junction is orbiting on the same plane in a figure 8, then there's a time when it would be between the two stars, at only 6 light-hours from B. But it's also possible that the Junction is at the barycentre itself, but that wouldn't be stable and it wouldn't explain how the RZ shifts.

It's far more likely that it orbits around the two stars and 7 light-hours is a lucky period when it's at or close to periastron with Manticore-A; in Travis' time, it might be at one of the farthest points from both stars. Manticore-A is a G0 and Manticore-B is a G2, so A is about 6% more massive than B, making the barycentre 3% closer to A than B, so I'll just ignore it. If 7 light-hours is the periastron to A, then the Junction's orbit is 7 + 6.5 = 13.5 light-hours from the system's barycentre. In that case, the furthest elongation would be √(6.5² + 13.5²) ≅ 15 light-hours.

I haven't finished the book yet. I'm wondering how much more we get to know before the end.

RFC had said in a post at some point that there were grav phenomina not associated with wormholes that looked similar to an Resonance Zone; and that's why Manticore's Junction wasn't instantly recognized as a likely wormhole as soon as the first ones were discovered. But nice to see that stated canonically in a book.

And having the RZ affecting primarily Manticore-B also explains why it wasn't more of a problem for them in those early years. With the early (and presumably less accurate) hyper-logs (inertial navigation systems) it'd really suck to have a large % of the arc of Manticore-A's hyper limit that would destroy any ship emerging there. Putting it over on -B reduces the risk. (Especially since I suspect most civilian shipping between -A and -B was done sub-light back then)

The Wiki says "after the Axelrod Corporation had tried to invade and the Manticoran authorities had discovered, in the taken ships' databases, that Axelrod had found proof for the wormhole's existence in the system."

We now know that it's not the case. As I had speculated, the methods the Manticore government found out and just how long it had known (or suspected) aren't part of the official history. There may still be reasons why they didn't disclose that a couple of decades or even a century after the fact (e.g., a deal cut with Axelrod).

What's Manticore going to do now? My guess is next book will probably have the Conference as a B-plot, still being kept under wraps. But beyond that?

What's Axelrod's next step?

They need to get different mercenaries or another patsy to invade Manticore for them. The Volsungs weren't easy to find. There are probably one or two more merc groups in the whole Diaspora that would be comparable, but they're likely far from the Haven Sector. Meanwhile, Axelrod knows that Manticore is arming to defend itself, so they know they need more firepower than the Volsungs could have brought to bear.

What's their plan? It seems to me that repeating the same operation, but increasing the intensity is a bit dumb.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:What's Axelrod's next step?

They need to get different mercenaries or another patsy to invade Manticore for them. The Volsungs weren't easy to find. There are probably one or two more merc groups in the whole Diaspora that would be comparable, but they're likely far from the Haven Sector. Meanwhile, Axelrod knows that Manticore is arming to defend itself, so they know they need more firepower than the Volsungs could have brought to bear.

What's their plan? It seems to me that repeating the same operation, but increasing the intensity is a bit dumb.

Note the comment in Chapter 15 that experts at Axelrod were invited to the "gravitic anomoly" conference that the SKM was organizing. The odds are very high that the Azelrod headquarters will realize that the SKM was suspecting the existence of the junction.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:What's Axelrod's next step?

They need to get different mercenaries or another patsy to invade Manticore for them. The Volsungs weren't easy to find. There are probably one or two more merc groups in the whole Diaspora that would be comparable, but they're likely far from the Haven Sector. Meanwhile, Axelrod knows that Manticore is arming to defend itself, so they know they need more firepower than the Volsungs could have brought to bear.

What's their plan? It seems to me that repeating the same operation, but increasing the intensity is a bit dumb.

Yes they need a new plan. But I don't think their answer is mercenaries. For one thing, mercs are less than trustworthy. The reason the Volsungs had to be eliminated was they discovered Axelrod's identity along with their reaction to the defeat at Manticore made them impossible to control. They run the same risks with any other group they bring in except with reputable groups who wouldn't have taken the job to start with.

Given that Manticore learns their identity, I don't see a viable plan b for Axelrod. Instead it gives Manticore a giant hint as to what has been going on. After all, what has Axelrod been up to lately... It only takes a little digging to find out.

Don

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:Note the comment in Chapter 15 that experts at Axelrod were invited to the "gravitic anomoly" conference that the SKM was organizing. The odds are very high that the Azelrod headquarters will realize that the SKM was suspecting the existence of the junction.

Agreed, and even if the invitation to them is withdrawn, or even never sent, they'd know. The conference is the best opportunity for their operatives to divert attention in Manticore.

But this doesn't tell us what their next step for seizing the system and the Junction is. I agree with n7axw that repeating the same tactic is not ideal. So what will they do? I can't come up with an idea.

BTW, did you notice at the end of ACTD that the Axelrod offices were on Beowulf?

We don't have "information from the database (not the pirates, not the mercenaries and certainly not any of Axelrod's) about the wormhole? We have the report from the scientist pushing the theory that all the resonance problems might be from a wormhole. And, while Axelrod is one of the groups being invited to send representatives, there has already been discussion about how to keep the invitees away from the real reason for the conference,----which is to pick their minds.

On the other hand, it is POSSIBLE that the Axelrod representatives might have a copy of the data they are hiding with them. Ok, probably not very smart but how about they come with a lot of equipment that is more "wormhole centric" in terms of measurements and research that what other attendees bring---who is going to turn down the "mark's" offer to study the thing close up---and SIS might be able to get into that data.

Mercenaries are available but so far Axelrod has been somewhat cagey about the deniability of the people it sends to do the hard work of taking Manticore. Mostly they want to avoid Haven and the League from taking an interest in what is going on. The League is almost certainly going to react to a potential "junction" as something they want to control out to the "Haven Quadrant" and would, of course, take over the management in the interests of helping poor backward Manticore lot lose such a strategic asset and probably allow it to fall into nefarious hands. This sounds like a job for OFS!!

Brigade XO wrote:Mercenaries are available but so far Axelrod has been somewhat cagey about the deniability of the people it sends to do the hard work of taking Manticore. Mostly they want to avoid Haven and the League from taking an interest in what is going on. The League is almost certainly going to react to a potential "junction" as something they want to control out to the "Haven Quadrant" and would, of course, take over the management in the interests of helping poor backward Manticore lot lose such a strategic asset and probably allow it to fall into nefarious hands. This sounds like a job for OFS!!

Though I don't think OFS has even been founded yet.


And the League bureaucracy probably hasn't gotten addicted to the revenue stream from controlling wormholes yet -- there just aren't enough of them around, nor enough traffic through them, to make the League's take of the fees a sizable part of their department funding yet. (Though the longterm revenue is more than attractive enough to get a transtellar salivating -- but not yet someone on the scale of the League government)

So it probably isn't too difficult to get the League to ignore a possible new wormhole out in the back of beyond. (At least until the terminus at Beowulf is discovered)

Jonathan_S wrote:Though I don't think OFS has even been founded yet.


And the League bureaucracy probably hasn't gotten addicted to the revenue stream from controlling wormholes yet -- there just aren't enough of them around, nor enough traffic through them, to make the League's take of the fees a sizable part of their department funding yet. (Though the longterm revenue is more than attractive enough to get a transtellar salivating -- but not yet someone on the scale of the League government)

So it probably isn't too difficult to get the League to ignore a possible new wormhole out in the back of beyond. (At least until the terminus at Beowulf is discovered)

Not to mention that, if it weren't for the Junction, Manticore and the Haven Sector would have been considered Verge in Honor's time. They were very far from the League's borders then, much less in Travis' time. It's simply too far for the OFS to take an official, direct interest on.

The Junction could provide a proper excuse, but that's the opposite of what Axelrod wants.