Excusez-moi

1. What is the Winton’s genetic makeup?

2. Why does the Queen continue to hide her genetic makeup? It isn’t like the royal family is in danger from anyone knowing unless there is political danger from within?

3. Is the fact that the Wintons are genies itself a secret? I can’t remember if that is known.

4. If the Alignment says Honor is a product of a lost Alpha line, and Honor is so successful as a genie, then why wouldn’t the Alignment attempt to reproduce Honor’s line in batches?

5. Is there a possibility that not everyone in the Winton line is of the same genetic makeup?



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Is there a possibility that the Wintons are a lost Alpha line as well?

Although Honor has been mentioned as a possible member of a lost Alpha line, there is no such mention for the Wintons. I emphasize possible because of the following text from the author:

runsforcelery wrote:The people who think of her as an alpha --- and who think "she ought to have been ours" --- are taking far too much credit for who and what she is . . . which is sort of part and parcel of their basic blind spot. The whole point of the connection (from my perspective, and at the present time) is that the MA thinks of her that way; that if the GA ever realizes she's a "lost alpha" it may cause all sorts of angst; but tat in the end, she is a triumph of freely associated genetic and societal and philosophical factors which totally discredit the MA's philosophy.

There just hasn't been remotely enough time to make all that clear since you found out about her ancestry. There are a lot of other aspects of her personality and of causative factors in the Honorverse that I haven't analyzed for you in their entirety the very first time I mentioned them. I reserve the right to unpack some of these concepts gradually. In this case, you have jumped in exactly the opposite direction from where I am headed.

Of course, I suppose it's possible (remotely, you understand) that I sort of wanted you to go that direction before you found out where I was really going.

Sort of like that whole French Revolution thing . . . .

Spoiler- UH- Likes and Don't Likes

tlb wrote:Although Honor has been mentioned as a possible member of a lost Alpha line, there is no such mention for the Wintons. I emphasize possible because of the following text from the author:

runsforcelery wrote:The people who think of her as an alpha --- and who think "she ought to have been ours" --- are taking far too much credit for who and what she is . . . which is sort of part and parcel of their basic blind spot. The whole point of the connection (from my perspective, and at the present time) is that the MA thinks of her that way; that if the GA ever realizes she's a "lost alpha" it may cause all sorts of angst; but tat in the end, she is a triumph of freely associated genetic and societal and philosophical factors which totally discredit the MA's philosophy.

There just hasn't been remotely enough time to make all that clear since you found out about her ancestry. There are a lot of other aspects of her personality and of causative factors in the Honorverse that I haven't analyzed for you in their entirety the very first time I mentioned them. I reserve the right to unpack some of these concepts gradually. In this case, you have jumped in exactly the opposite direction from where I am headed.

Of course, I suppose it's possible (remotely, you understand) that I sort of wanted you to go that direction before you found out where I was really going.

Sort of like that whole French Revolution thing . . . .

Spoiler- UH- Likes and Don't Likes

Indeed. No telling where the author is headed.

Could it be possible that the Winton's genetic makeup is totally unique? Unknown even to the MA?

penny wrote:Is there a possibility that the Wintons are a lost Alpha line as well?

This one is a definitely NO.

The Wintons left Earth in 775 PD, several centuries before Leonard Detweiler was born on Beowulf.

It's possible they have had genetic updates since arriving in the MBS (I would say it's quite likely), by the time the MAlign would have taken any interest in Manticore - probably in Stephanie's time, we'll see more about that in a month and a half - they were already the Royals and too protected for the MAlign to do anything about. None of which would qualify as a MAlign line anyway.

penny wrote:Could it be possible that the Winton's genetic makeup is totally unique? Unknown even to the MA?

It is a closely guarded secret, so should be unknown to the MA; but only the author knows. But it cannot TOTALLY unique, otherwise they could not have children with normal people; that is to say they are identifiably human.

penny wrote:1. What is the Winton’s genetic makeup?

2. Why does the Queen continue to hide her genetic makeup? It isn’t like the royal family is in danger from anyone knowing unless there is political danger from within?

I think there's a danger of targeted virus and other pathogens that lock to a person or family's DNA markers. Therefore, as ruling government, the Wintons' specific markers are probably held as a state secret.

3. Is the fact that the Wintons are genies itself a secret? I can’t remember if that is known.

I have a vague recollection that, like the Meyerdahl mods prevalent on Sphinx, it's known but not widely talked about. It's something the Wintons probably want the public to pay no attention to, which includes not fanning conspiracy theories by actively trying to suppress it.

4. If the Alignment says Honor is a product of a lost Alpha line, and Honor is so successful as a genie, then why wouldn’t the Alignment attempt to reproduce Honor’s line in batches?

Because it's a lost line. That implies the specifics of it were lost to the MAlign, so they can't readily replicate it.

Moreover, it's a line that had been out of contact with the LRPB for 4 T-centuries, interbreeding with other Manticore locals and with Meyerdahl-mod Sphinxians. The MAlign probably needs to steal samples first in order to replicate it.

Besides, I'm going to venture that Honor's success and her being a genie have little causal relationship. She probably has the same intelligence increase that every single non-slave genetic mod has, because who wouldn't want it for their children, but which won't be exclusive to her or the Harringtons. What is very exclusive to her family is the treecat-bonding and the calming influence those exert on the adopted two-legs. In fact, looking at Alfred's temper before he bonded with Allison and the antics of young Stephanie and Honor, I'd even guess that the Harringtons tend to be hot-headed unless they have a bond - though this is generalised from a very small sampe; we don't how about young Devon or Sarah Harrington, and we have seen little from Faith and James.

The MAlign may try to produce another Harrington line, only to discover they make mediocre officers without the treecats and the mentors.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

penny wrote:1. What is the Winton’s genetic makeup?

2. Why does the Queen continue to hide her genetic makeup? It isn’t like the royal family is in danger from anyone knowing unless there is political danger from within?

I think there's a danger of targeted virus and other pathogens that lock to a person or family's DNA markers. Therefore, as ruling government, the Wintons' specific markers are probably held as a state secret.

3. Is the fact that the Wintons are genies itself a secret? I can’t remember if that is known.

I have a vague recollection that, like the Meyerdahl mods prevalent on Sphinx, it's known but not widely talked about. It's something the Wintons probably want the public to pay no attention to, which includes not fanning conspiracy theories by actively trying to suppress it.

From Ashes of Victory:

Chapter 6 wrote:"And good morning to you, too, Captain Henke. Thank you for delivering Dame Honor in one piece."
"We strive to please, Your Majesty," Henke replied with a certain unctuousness.
"And with such deep and heartfelt respect, too," Elizabeth observed.
"Always," Henke agreed, and the cousins grinned at one another. They really did look remarkably alike, although Henke showed the outward signs of the original, modified Winton genotype far more strongly. Elizabeth's rich mahogany skin was considerably lighter than her cousin's, yet Honor rather suspected Elizabeth had even more of the less obvious advantages Roger Winton's parents had had designed into their progeny. The exact nature of those modifications, while not precisely classified, was unknown to the general public, as was the very fact that any Winton had ever been a genie. In fact, the Star Kingdom's security people took considerable pains to keep it that way, and Honor knew only because Mike had been her Academy roommate and closest friend for just under forty T-years . . . and because Mike had known she was a fellow genie for almost all that time. But whichever of them had more of the original modifications, both had the same, distinctive Winton features, and there were barely three years between their ages.

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:Could it be possible that the Winton's genetic makeup is totally unique? Unknown even to the MA?

It is a closely guarded secret, so should be unknown to the MA; but only the author knows. But it cannot TOTALLY unique, otherwise they could not have children with normal people; that is to say they are identifiably human.

My apology. I wasn't clear. I know the Winton's specific genetic makeup is unknown. But I assumed that it could or would be found in a MAlign database of all available possibilities. Due to the MA's extensive research in that area. I would wager that the MA knows all possible concoctions of genetic soup; just not the specific recipe cooked up for the Wintons. But that might not be the case. I'm just trying to appease the conspiracy theorist lurking inside my head who questions why the Winton's genetic makeup would need to be classified.

I do understand, mind you, why one may want to keep the fact that one is a genie a secret in the first place. Like in Honor's case in the face of those who are prejudiced against genies.

But if it gets out that one is a genie, then why not the type as well? Unless that type carries some sort of a stigma like in the case of Bardasano. You know, the crazy gene???

But what is not clear is whether the classified bit implies that it is widely known that the Winton's are genies, just not what type.

penny wrote:My apology. I wasn't clear. I know the Winton's specific genetic makeup is unknown. But I assumed that it could or would be found in a MAlign database of all available possibilities. Due to the MA's extensive research in that area. I would wager that the MA knows all possible concoctions of genetic soup; just not the specific recipe cooked up for the Wintons. But that might not be the case. I'm just trying to appease the conspiracy theorist lurking inside my head who questions why the Winton's genetic makeup would need to be classified.

I do understand, mind you, why one may want to keep the fact that one is a genie a secret in the first place. Like in Honor's case in the face of those who are prejudiced against genies.

But if it gets out that one is a genie, then why not the type as well? Unless that type carries some sort of a stigma like in the case of Bardasano. You know, the crazy gene???

But what is not clear is whether the classified bit implies that it is widely known that the Winton's are genies, just now what type.

So far as we know, Winton IS the type (meaning only they have it) and everything about it is a secret (as the text says). How would the MA even know if they had something similar in their database, unless they got a DNA sample?

PS: In what language is this thread's title? It looks something like French, but I believe French would be "excusez-moi" (sort of the Espresso versus Expresso thing reversed).