So what's manticore going to do with all those spacers?

They're downsizing the fleet. That's a lot of unemployed spacers. I suspect that usually they would just go to the merchant marine, but the solar league war kill some of manticore's shipping lines so there's already a surplus of spacers. the other thing i suspect is that a lot them went and did things on hephaestus like yard doging, but it's been destroyed and they haven't build the new ones yet.

Puidwen wrote:They're downsizing the fleet. That's a lot of unemployed spacers. I suspect that usually they would just go to the merchant marine, but the solar league war kill some of manticore's shipping lines so there's already a surplus of spacers. the other thing i suspect is that a lot them went and did things on hephaestus like yard doging, but it's been destroyed and they haven't build the new ones yet.

As you say, there is need for manpower to rebuild all that was destroyed.

Although the closing of trade with the Solarian League closed a lot of routes; we don't know if it killed all the freight companies, because there was new trade with Haven, the Talbott Quarter, Manticore's partition of Silesia and perhaps the Andermani Empire.

As Tib says the Solarion League trade has been affected, but there are going to be some League planets that will be okay with continuing use of Manticoran bottoms for their shipping needs, so it will be a matter of connecting with them and restarting trade connections. As far as Silesia that shipping connections are still in place, the Talbot sector (what little there is) is still okay, and I'm sure that the Havenite connection is being explored. So maybe the military manpower that will be going into the private sector will have some openings. And with the lower manpower ships that Manticoran uses that probably won't be a problem. If there is a problem it will be when the Havenite naval vessels which are more manpower intensive start decommissioning.

This is a society with almost unlimited energy, massive availability of materials, lifespans 3 times ours, and presumably well sorted social support. If I was a beached spacer I would take the universal stipend, and go on a grand tour for 50 years or so.

Puidwen wrote:They're downsizing the fleet. That's a lot of unemployed spacers. I suspect that usually they would just go to the merchant marine, but the solar league war kill some of manticore's shipping lines so there's already a surplus of spacers. the other thing i suspect is that a lot them went and did things on hephaestus like yard doging, but it's been destroyed and they haven't build the new ones yet.

They are rebuilding the new yards in the Manticore System it's just not yet clear if the building of the major stations (I think it was two to replace each of the three original - one for each inhabited planet) will have civilian and military yards along with associated manufacturing built into the stations. Probably but no actual word.

With the war with the SL over, we hope that MMM has been let completely back onto what is the SL.2. The League didn't - in any real sense- appear to have been able to put new commercial freighters into production and the service before Honor eliminated effectively all the building capability not attached to Civilian Orbital Habitats. Anything building in the yards she destroyed is also gone ---for the League it, it being Honor- she gave the targeted stations and other orbitals time to evacuate. There was also the very interesting problem that the vessels TUFFed (Taken Up From Trade under preexisting arrangements with the SLN) were getting destroyed since they were serving as ammunition freighter for the SLN raiding fleets and we saw those attached to one fleet destroyed by ramming with Ghost Rider drones. While not specifically addressed in the books, the logistics train for Fillerta probably got caught by RMN/RHN ships and since most would have been logistics freighters, repair and ammunition ships, those -if not destroyed- would have been taken as prizes and be no in the queue for recycling at either Manticore (or possibly at Beowulf though that would just be rubbing salt in the anger the League's people for Beowulfe going Indpendent) or -depending on usefulness, taken into RMN/RHN as axularies. A repair ship is a repair ship and a "military freighter" is still usually faster than a civilian one.

Those surrendered SLN ships are getting stripped for usable parts and then recycled for materials- that operation, which would including building and expanding salvage operations- is going to need trained spacers.

Although several "idled" through Lacoon II MMM ships were used at Beowulf as block-ships agains missile attack and lost, I suspect that ships which were unable to meet their financial obligations etc were parked somewhere in the the two systems of Manticor pending resolutions with their creditors- probably with minimal watch-keeping crews to keep them at a maintenance only state so they are usable -and safe- to go back to work if only under new owners. They would need officers and crews and those people who were put On the Beach are mostly going to want to get back to getting paid doing a job they are good at.

Both the Empire's Talbot Quadrant and its portion of Silesia are going to need a lot of trained and experienced people to help build development. Former military bring a lot of skills with civilian applications and this group has current experience with the range of tech and equipment to push development.

There are jobs/careers available, and I suspect the RMN will help with leads.

Brigade XO wrote:While not specifically addressed in the books, the logistics train for Fillerta probably got caught by RMN/RHN ships and since most would have been logistics freighters, repair and ammunition ships, those -if not destroyed- would have been taken as prizes and be no in the queue for recycling at either Manticore (or possibly at Beowulf though that would just be rubbing salt in the anger the League's people for Beowulfe going Indpendent) or -depending on usefulness, taken into RMN/RHN as axularies. A repair ship is a repair ship and a "military freighter" is still usually faster than a civilian one.

Did the books actually say he was arrogant enough to bring his logistics train into the Manticore system? I didn't recall it saying anything one way or the other.

If they were in-system then yes they probably got captured when the remnants of his fleet surrendered.

But if he was reasonably competent he'd have dropped the fleet train, along with some escorts, at a pre-defined rendezvous a few LY away. If so, there's a reasonably chance they were able to bug out before Manticore was able to discover, from captured files or personnel, where the logistics train had been waiting.

Daryl wrote:This is a society with almost unlimited energy, massive availability of materials, lifespans 3 times ours, and presumably well sorted social support. If I was a beached spacer I would take the universal stipend, and go on a grand tour for 50 years or so.

You do that you might run into that if the goverment gives you one red cent more then you pay in taxs you no longer get to vote clause the star kingdom has. Somehow i don't think that would be popular among veterans. Especially those who remember the mess Highridge made of the war.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:While not specifically addressed in the books, the logistics train for Fillerta probably got caught by RMN/RHN ships and since most would have been logistics freighters, repair and ammunition ships, those -if not destroyed- would have been taken as prizes and be no in the queue for recycling at either Manticore (or possibly at Beowulf though that would just be rubbing salt in the anger the League's people for Beowulfe going Indpendent) or -depending on usefulness, taken into RMN/RHN as axularies. A repair ship is a repair ship and a "military freighter" is still usually faster than a civilian one.

Did the books actually say he was arrogant enough to bring his logistics train into the Manticore system? I didn't recall it saying anything one way or the other.

If they were in-system then yes they probably got captured when the remnants of his fleet surrendered.

But if he was reasonably competent he'd have dropped the fleet train, along with some escorts, at a pre-defined rendezvous a few LY away. If so, there's a reasonably chance they were able to bug out before Manticore was able to discover, from captured files or personnel, where the logistics train had been waiting.

The Fleet train was supposed to include 500,000 marines and their transports, and they were never discussed post assault; so I assume that the fleet train hadn't entered the system yet.

Theemile wrote:The Fleet train was supposed to include 500,000 marines and their transports, and they were never discussed post assault; so I assume that the fleet train hadn't entered the system yet.

It should be standard practice not to bring your fleet train into a hostile system. That's such a simple rule that even Byng wouldn't have forgotten. Byng may have been arrogant enough to overrule it, especially if he was leading 437 superdreadnoughts, but he wouldn't have forgotten. Crandall wouldn't have overruled it and she might have been dense as a neutron star - or as Filareta described her, "Forgets to close the outer hatch first".

I get the impression that Filareta was actually competent. He had a lot of blind spots, as that quote I can't find of "they can't have superdreadnoughts faster than our destroyers" shows, and he's definitely no saint (and he knows he isn't). He was set up for failure, but the fact that someone had to install a bomb in his flag bridge and his ops officer was compelled to launch anyway indicates the MAlign thought he would have read the situation correctly when it became clear he couldn't win. They were right.

From what I gather, those are people likely to have made fair sums (prize money, hazard pay, regular income), have been educated with a big emphasis on independent thought and action, in a society that seems to think well of entrepreneurship.

Manticore doesn't need to "do" anything with them at all. They'll do fine on their own, thankyouverymuch.