More: "old ship use" for armchair admirals

Stick on the boards for a while and you'll find lots of threads about what to do with ship-type X after it's been captured, retired, blown almost to smithereens but survived etc. It's a given that my "scenario" is totally unrealistic in the currently plotted Honorverse. For at least some time after the Yawata Strike they can't build ANYTHING, and whatever capacity Haven has at Bolthole is going to be needed for new build ships. Here's the setup:

The SLN brain trust has decided to go on a strategy of commerce raiding using Frontier Fleet (maybe with some Battle Fleet backup) against everybody but the home planet defense forces. Presumably there are officers FF and the OFS that are smart enough to use multiple ships or small task groups per raid for sheer intimidation of Verge systems if nothing else. The SEM/Grand Alliance needs force projection and protection.

In some imaginary repair shipyard, they take an "almost blown to scrap" ship like the HMS Chimera (a Hydra class C-LAC), cut it's "LAC" sizing by some large percentage, and reuse that space to equip this new monstronsity much like the converted armed merchant Wayfarer in Honor Among Enemies, sans energy weapons besides defense clustering, etc. or maybe just a couple grasers etc., to keep an enemy "honest". Realistically if a task group closes on any single ship, Manticoran or otherwise, it's dead anyway.

Our "HMS CHIMERA II" is similar size (8MM tons vs. 7MM for the Wayfarer), which is about three times the size of the latest Nike Class BC's. It's got heavier armoring than any merchant hull, SD-sidewalls, Manticoran SD/CLAC acceleration speed, a mix of both pods and tubes. For the sake of upping the challenge, Mark 16 tubes so that it can carry a huge supply of them to go with the Mark 23-MDM Pods [both internal and limpeted to the hull], an SD class tactical system, and likely "Keyhole II" capability. For the "record" it's also as highly automated as possible but likely has enough RMN Marines for tasks like BlackBird 1, Tiberian, Saltash, etc. Sort of like an X% CLAC, Y% SD(p).

You get to choose both the weapons mix and the mission. Off it goes to defend the Z region of interstellar space from the infernal FF baddies. Choose the mix and the attack force, pick one side or the other (SLN attack force or our defenders), and... Your mission, should you chose to accept it, is to discuss whatever facet of the concept you wish, make some fan-fic battle propositions, whatever you like.

Off we go. Thoughts?

With ~1000 SD(P)s and four of the five largest navies in known space on their side, I can't fathom the desperate situation in which it would be necessary to cobble together a modified vessel from damaged parts and send it out alone.

Firstly, if the ship is blown nearly to scrap, it is scrap. If it isn't, it'll be repaired back to its designed purpose.

Secondly, there aren't any spare yards to carry out the repairs or modifications in. Those that are or will be available are busy building new ships or maintaining other undamaged ships. You are proposing to:
-Install MK16 launchers and magazines
-MK23 pod storage and launching systems
-SD tactical systems(why? What's wrong with the CLAC's - they were used as flagships, quite successfully too.)
-Keyhole II, which is no small undertaking. Remember how long the Andy SD(P)s were delayed?
-Additional automation

All those components would have to come from somewhere.

Thirdly, system defense on this scale is quite adequately handed by locally deployed LACs and missile pods. Is there a reason those can't be deployed more quickly? Even Havenite technology would be a considerable step up on ex-scrap ships and they've got a vast rear area they no longer have to defend against 8th Fleet quality raids, as well as intact production lines.

If you are going to use them, I think you have to use them "as is" providing some support by supplying traing cadres for local crews, maintanence, etc.

I don't think that a deeper commitment would be appropriate for the GA. They really don't have the personnel to spar

If you are going to use them, I think you have to use them "as is" providing some support by supplying traing cadres for local crews, maintanence, etc.

I don't think that a deeper commitment would be appropriate for the GA. They really don't have the personnel to spare for an idea that is at best marginal.

Don

I'd love to take an old ship, turn the thrusters on max till the ship literally spins itself apart from centripetal force.

Relax wrote:I'd love to take an old ship, turn the thrusters on max till the ship literally spins itself apart from centripetal force.

Considering that a commercial ship has sustained 400+ g for hours, I have to wonder exactly how fast you would need to spin the ship to accomplish this. 120,000 RPM?

kzt wrote:

Relax wrote:I'd love to take an old ship, turn the thrusters on max till the ship literally spins itself apart from centripetal force.

Considering that a commercial ship has sustained 400+ g for hours, I have to wonder exactly how fast you would need to spin the ship to accomplish this. 120,000 RPM?

There's only one way to find out. We'll need one of Crandall's superdreadnaughts, a lot of thruster fuel and an empty star system.

FOR SCIENCE!

Dafmeister wrote:

Relax wrote:I'd love to take an old ship, turn the thrusters on max till the ship literally spins itself apart from centripetal force.

kzt wrote:Considering that a commercial ship has sustained 400+ g for hours, I have to wonder exactly how fast you would need to spin the ship to accomplish this. 120,000 RPM?

There's only one way to find out. We'll need one of Crandall's superdreadnaughts, a lot of thruster fuel and an empty star system.

FOR SCIENCE!

Lets do a little arithmetic. The formula for acceleration due to rotation is a = v squared divided by r

Assume a 2000 meter SD is being spun at 60 RPM (once per second). v is therfore 2pi* radius (1000 meters) or 6283 meters/second. Therefore the acceleration is 6283m/s squared divided by 1000 meters or approximately 39478 m/sec squared. Divide by 9.8 m/sec2 per gravity and you get 4028 gs. Is that sufficient to tear the ship apart?

fallsfromtrees wrote:Lets do a little arithmetic. The formula for acceleration due to rotation is a = v squared divided by r

Assume a 2000 meter SD is being spun at 60 RPM (once per second). v is therfore 2pi* radius (1000 meters) or 6283 meters/second. Therefore the acceleration is 6283m/s squared divided by 1000 meters or approximately 39478 m/sec squared. Divide by 9.8 m/sec2 per gravity and you get 4028 gs. Is that sufficient to tear the ship apart?

No, they spin on their long axis. So it needs to be a lot faster.

kzt wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Lets do a little arithmetic. The formula for acceleration due to rotation is a = v squared divided by r

Assume a 2000 meter SD is being spun at 60 RPM (once per second). v is therefore 2pi* radius (1000 meters) or 6283 meters/second. Therefore the acceleration is 6283m/s squared divided by 1000 meters or approximately 39478 m/sec squared. Divide by 9.8 m/sec2 per gravity and you get 4028 gs. Is that sufficient to tear the ship apart?

No, they spin on their long axis. So it needs to be a lot faster.

Okay. Looking up the information for a Gryphon class SD (which is probably comparable to a Scientist class SL SD in size) we get a size of 1371 x 199 x 185 meters. Averaging the two smaller dimensions we get about 190 meters in average diameter or about 95 meters in radius.
The circumference is therefore about 600 meters, and again assuming 60 RPM spin rate, we get 600 meters/second for v. This gives us an acceleration of 3789m/sec2 or approximately 386 gs. Not sufficient - Try 120 RPM. That will give a v of 1200 m/s, and an accel of 15150 m/s2 or 1546 gs. That should be sufficient.