San Martin nobles

Given that the San Martin nobles were not be seated in the Lords until after a general election, the question is: as of the end of ART are they still waiting to be seated? There has been no mention of a general election, even in passing, but given that it is expected that the new nobles will primarily support the Centrists, and that the Centrists could expect to make major gains in the Commons, why wouldn't Grantville have scheduled those elections early on?

fallsfromtrees wrote:Given that the San Martin nobles were not be seated in the Lords until after a general election, the question is: as of the end of ART are they still waiting to be seated? There has been no mention of a general election, even in passing, but given that it is expected that the new nobles will primarily support the Centrists, and that the Centrists could expect to make major gains in the Commons, why wouldn't Grantville have scheduled those elections early on?

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My only thought is that the High Ridge Government fell with the re-opening of the Havenite War.
We know why High Ridge would not call for elections.
I suspect that with the SEM-Havenite Treaty ratified, elections will be called and the San Martin Nobles will be seated.
Only wrench in the works is the New war with the Solaran League.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Given that the San Martin nobles were not be seated in the Lords until after a general election, the question is: as of the end of ART are they still waiting to be seated? There has been no mention of a general election, even in passing, but given that it is expected that the new nobles will primarily support the Centrists, and that the Centrists could expect to make major gains in the Commons, why wouldn't Grantville have scheduled those elections early on?

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My only thought is that the High Ridge Government fell with the re-opening of the Havenite War.
We know why High Ridge would not call for elections.
I suspect that with the SEM-Havenite Treaty ratified, elections will be called and the San Martin Nobles will be seated.
Only wrench in the works is the New war with the Solaran League.

-- Stewart

Would they have waited. There was several years between the fall of he High Ridge government and the end of the second Havenite war.

There is nothing illegal about calling an election in wartime. It may well have happened off stage.

On the other hand, it was the mess in the Lords that was the problem. Once that was resolved, the Grantville government may well not have seen a need for an election.

Don

n7axw wrote:There is nothing illegal about calling an election in wartime. It may well have happened off stage.

On the other hand, it was the mess in the Lords that was the problem. Once that was resolved, the Grantville government may well not have seen a need for an election.

Don

They wouldn't, no. But getting the San Martino lords seated finally would look like the just and fair thing to do.

Some calculation may be that giving Cathy Montaigne time to re-organize her wing of the Liberal Party as a new one or as at least the dominant faction may have been good - looking into the future, while the Conservatives are out of the Commons and the Progressives are hurt terribly there, there will still be a large Liberal force and letting Montaigne get in a good position to make it a plausible coalition partner for the Centralists (and an unlikelier one for the Conservatives and Progressives) down the road may be good politics.

Because the US doesn't work this way, I'm not sure, but given that Manticore is more along the UK model, when High Ridge was forced out, I think that automatically triggered a parliamentary election which would usually trigger a general election, wouldn't it?

Elizabeth is neither autocratic nor corrupt, and it was the malfeasance of the major and discredited players (North Hollow, Descroix, and High Ridge) that kept the general election from happening. High Ridge's coalition was only a matter of two or three people. My guess is that, bottom line, is that it happened right then and that the Conservative and Liberal parties voting blocks just crumpled. That would practically insure that the most trusted of the Crown Centrists (William Alexander) was elected Prime Minister.

IIRC, the Lords also had to vote regarding Talbott because we know that the "old" Conservative association, etc. had messed up the original Act of Annexation in OBS that got amended in a process involving the House of Lords, and finally, both the House of Lords and House of Commons would have to ratify the treaty with Haven as well, and I don't think the San Martinos would be happy if they didn't have a vote as well.

We don't get a specific "House of Lords" reference on either of those issues, other than the result was a "hell yes" majority, on both of those, do we?

SharkHunter wrote:Because the US doesn't work this way, I'm not sure, but given that Manticore is more along the UK model, when High Ridge was forced out, I think that automatically triggered a parliamentary election which would usually trigger a general election, wouldn't it?

Elizabeth is neither autocratic nor corrupt, and it was the malfeasance of the major and discredited players (North Hollow, Descroix, and High Ridge) that kept the general election from happening. High Ridge's coalition was only a matter of two or three people. My guess is that, bottom line, is that it happened right then and that the Conservative and Liberal parties voting blocks just crumpled. That would practically insure that the most trusted of the Crown Centrists (William Alexander) was elected Prime Minister.

IIRC, the Lords also had to vote regarding Talbott because we know that the "old" Conservative association, etc. had messed up the original Act of Annexation in OBS that got amended in a process involving the House of Lords, and finally, both the House of Lords and House of Commons would have to ratify the treaty with Haven as well, and I don't think the San Martinos would be happy if they didn't have a vote as well.

We don't get a specific "House of Lords" reference on either of those issues, other than the result was a "hell yes" majority, on both of those, do we?

No, since then when High Ridge took over, it would have forced an election, and the whole problem would not have arisen in the first place.

JeffEngel wrote:

n7axw wrote:There is nothing illegal about calling an election in wartime. It may well have happened off stage.

On the other hand, it was the mess in the Lords that was the problem. Once that was resolved, the Grantville government may well not have seen a need for an election.

Don

They wouldn't, no. But getting the San Martino lords seated finally would look like the just and fair thing to do.

Some calculation may be that giving Cathy Montaigne time to re-organize her wing of the Liberal Party as a new one or as at least the dominant faction may have been good - looking into the future, while the Conservatives are out of the Commons and the Progressives are hurt terribly there, there will still be a large Liberal force and letting Montaigne get in a good position to make it a plausible coalition partner for the Centralists (and an unlikelier one for the Conservatives and Progressives) down the road may be good politics.

I agree with this...which is why I wonder if it might have happened off stage.

Don

And just to complicate matters further, they might have held up a bit to allow the latest (and least heard-from) member of the Star Kingdom (Lynx) to get their nominations and nobles selected and ready for the Lords.

Hutch wrote:And just to complicate matters further, they might have held up a bit to allow the latest (and least heard-from) member of the Star Kingdom (Lynx) to get their nominations and nobles selected and ready for the Lords.

IIRC, they can't even seat all of the San Martin Lords because of the 10% per election limit. I think there is also a minimum time between general elections involved also.

I'm pretty sure that there has been at least one election since the High Ridge government collapsed -- they were beyond the five year maximum without a "state of emergency" already, and Grantville had no problem with wartime elections.