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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by Daryl » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:48 am | |
Daryl
Posts: 3554
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Good luck to all here that agree on the existence of a deity, even if you probably mean quite different things using that term.
I don't personally believe in a god, and certainly not in a Christian (damn auto capitalisation) or islamic one. For years in a church boarding school the phrase "the bible says" meant that some sadistic thing was about to occur. I do believe that absolute good and evil exist though, and try to be good myself. Mind you I don't regard the misogyny, discrimination, puritanical attitudes, and outright cruelty promoted by many churches as being good in any way. It puzzles me that people in their daily lives need logical and factual proof to make decisions on matters like financial investments, health care, and car or house purchases; but can blithely decide to worship a specific god based only on someone else's say so. |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by fallsfromtrees » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:04 am | |
fallsfromtrees
Posts: 1960
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Reminds me of a story I read many many years ago. Moses is dictating to Aaron the history of the world as related to him by God. Moses: "13.2 billion years ago, there was.." Aaron: "Are you crazy. We don't have any where near enough parchment to cover that much time. I've only got enough for 6 days. That's it. Make it fit." ========================
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by cthia » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:05 pm | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
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Those who do not believe in GOD, help me to understand this one thing. Accompany me on a little journey. Under the support umbrella of my beliefs, I can play professor, procure a gedanken (thought experiment) and logically trace my existence back to a
void. You and I arrive at this void. Let us examine it and compare the data that we've found... void noun 1. a completely empty space. "the black void of space" synonyms: vacuum, emptiness, nothingness, nullity, blankness, vacuity. 2. (in bridge and whist) a suit in which a player is dealt no cards. The backroad ends here, and we seemingly cannot continue on. We see absolutely no thing. Absolute nothingness. There are no gasses. There are no atoms. No photons of light. There are absolutely no building blocks for any thing. Let alone life. One or both of us are lost. I come up with a plan. We can just hitch a ride back forward when it all re-begins. We both hold up our thumbs to hitch a ride. That which can carry you back has to spring from this nothingness. This void. Without assistance from a person or thing. That's going to be a hell of a magic trick from where I'm standing. Can you explain your beliefs to me from here? Beyond that void my beliefs supply an answer. This answer is supplied within the Bible, which I believe contains the written WORD OF GOD. The Bible claims this to be true. Mankind knows the concept of 0 and 1. It is among the first things learned as a child. "Mom, I want one! But Susie has one. I don't have any." "I'm first in line. You all get behind me and wait your turn." And a child will grill you to death. ["Where'd that come from?" "Well where did that come from?" "Well who put it there?"] When a child looks up into the heavens she always begins with a "Where" did all the stars come from? Even we, as a child, in our limited time on Earth, intuitively understand that the Sun, the Moon and the stars didn't just place themselves there. A more poignant piece of child logic. "Where did the baby come from mommy?" "Well how did it get there?" Skirt around the truth all we want, but the child will continue until she gets a logical answer that she can wrap her mind around. And that will default, always, to a "Who put it there?" The kid in all of us begs for that same closure. ' "What," put the universe there?" ' will always give way to "Who" put the universe there. Because it is intuitive that in the beginning there was nothing. An not even entropy will give us something, out of nothing. A Christian's Bible [claims] to know [Who] is responsible. That same source of a wealth of information supplies an introduction by the Supreme being himself [claiming] to be our Creator.
Now I don't know anyone else claiming to be GOD, or to know how it all began. Do you? All I am saying is that there is someone taking the rap for it all. He tells us a little about himself. He claims to know us all and not only introduces us to his only begotten Son, but he sacrifices his Son, for us. No other owner's and user's manual of the universe exists. But we have one. Why not consider it, until you can find another. If you don't already have one job, you don't refuse an honest way to make a living until you've got another. And not just another prospect, because prospects have this funny way of not panning out. Bracket for a moment that people use good for bad. That is just people. Our fight is with the evil within people. We fight with powers and principalities. Bracket the fact that the Bible has been translated and retranslated much. The gist of it still remains. There is a Supreme Being. Herein lies an explanation. It makes logical sense even if you say it doesn't make believable sense. Christians are supposed to be playing with an incomplete deck. But at least our beliefs deal us in and our beliefs provide an explanation of creation and a "Who."
Considering the second meaning of void 2. ... in which a player is dealt no cards. There exists NO chance to even play. Non believers say there is no God, but they will not posit how the first electron appeared out of nothing. Unless you believe that all matter always existed. If so, then your beliefs echo existentialism. We're trying to get to the root of things — of creation — and the root word of existentialist is exist. Matter always existing sounds familiarly to me, like infinite being. Cause and effect. If In The Beginning there was nothing to be effected and you say there was no one to cause it too? Then It seems we are dead in space with less than a snowball's chance in H-E-double hockey sticks or a prayer if you are correct. Wait! There are no snowballs either. Just ether. Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by fallsfromtrees » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:55 pm | |
fallsfromtrees
Posts: 1960
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Just pushes the problem back one level. Where did God come from? and, if as Robert Heinlein did in Job:A Comedy of Justice, you posit a supreme being to God, where did that supreme being come from, etc. People have posited that the unlikely hood of life is proof of God. Most of these do not understand that unlikely does NOT mean impossible, and that with sufficient tries even a very unlikely event WILL occur. As an example, assume an event has only a .001 change of occurring one tenth of one percent. If you run it just 100 times, what is the chance that the event occurred at least once during the 100 runs. it is not 10% as most people think. The actual number is about 99.5% chance that the event occured. If the probability is 1 in a billion, but you are talking trillions and quadrillions of runs, the probability of success is so close to one as to make no difference. The existence of God is not something that can be proved. It must be taken on faith, and faith alone. ========================
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by cthia » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:54 pm | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
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****** * You are not considering the definition of an infinite being. Infinity does not have a beginning lest it isn't infinite. GOD has always existed, just as the Bible and God says. Please, do forgive me for referencing other work, but the answer to your query is so intuitive that there is no need to reinvent that wheel. Many sites do a fine job on it.
Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by Michael Everett » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:46 pm | |
Michael Everett
Posts: 2619
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... can someone define GOD?
Is GOD different to Allah or Jehovah? What about Shiva? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Until GOD can be defined, proof cannot be found. Without definition, there can be no understanding. ~~~~~~
I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork. (Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC! ACNH Dreams at DA-6594-0940-7995 |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by biochem » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:29 pm | |
biochem
Posts: 1372
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Or he could rename politics to "politics and religion". I agree it should be moved out of the main forum. |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by biochem » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:36 pm | |
biochem
Posts: 1372
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And the matching quote is "Don't be so open minded your brains fall out" originator in dispute. Combining both quotes together leads to yet another quote "moderation in all things". |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by cthia » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:19 pm | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
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Everybody wants to move religion. Or discussions about religion. The Pilgrims fled England and religious persecution in search of lands in which they could worship as they please. America's success leads it to forget its roots. A land of religious freedom. As a result, we have taken (moved) religion out of the public schools. Now our public schools have become a warzone!
Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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Re: GOD EXISTS | |
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by Michael Everett » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:22 am | |
Michael Everett
Posts: 2619
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Actually, the Pilgrims fled the UK because they were too uptight and stick-in-the-@$$ to fit in with the majority, so they headed to the New World to set up a commune which effectively failed. Had the Pilgrims not been aided by the natives and follow-on shiploads of immigrants, America would still be in a state of low-level war between the various tribes. Or invaded by other countries seeking to grab the resources. ~~~~~~
I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork. (Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC! ACNH Dreams at DA-6594-0940-7995 |
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