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GOD EXISTS

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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by cthia   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:53 pm

cthia
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The E wrote:In this topic: confirmation bias.

Not at all.

Simply life's most important activity. Proclivity.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by The E   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:24 pm

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cthia wrote:
The E wrote:In this topic: confirmation bias.

Not at all.

Simply life's most important activity. Proclivity.


So, I actually had to look up Proclivity. Dictionary defines it as "a tendency to choose or do something regularly; an inclination or predisposition towards a particular thing."

So your answer to me saying that your entire endeavour of constructing a scientific proof for the existance of god is irreparably flawed due to your preexisting bias towards a positive answer is that said bias isn't a problem because you're already biased?

Or are you hoping that you'll be able to prove the existance of god by repeatedly saying "God exists, and I can prove it!"?
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by smr   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:53 pm

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Email contributed by Wilma C., June 23, 2004:

The professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did".

The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " "Of course" answered the professor.

The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exists?"

The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? ...Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."

"And, does Dark exist?", he continued. The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."

After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.

The young man's name was ALBERT EINSTEIN.




The E wrote:So, I actually had to look up Proclivity. Dictionary defines it as "a tendency to choose or do something regularly; an inclination or predisposition towards a particular thing."

So your answer to me saying that your entire endeavour of constructing a scientific proof for the existance of god is irreparably flawed due to your preexisting bias towards a positive answer is that said bias isn't a problem because you're already biased?

Or are you hoping that you'll be able to prove the existance of god by repeatedly saying "God exists, and I can prove it!"?
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by The E   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:17 pm

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You are confusing rhetoric with actual proof. There is also a logical leap in there: While the points about Cold and Dark being the absence of energy is correct, it does not follow that evil is the absence of god. The first two are implied by physics, the third point is a matter of philosophy (Theology subsection). It is not a conclusive proof for the existance of god, it's a conclusive proof of the existance of belief in the existance of god in the mind of a young student. There's a difference, and you would do well to learn it.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by TN4994   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:55 pm

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smr wrote:Email contributed by Wilma C., June 23, 2004:

The professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did".

The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " "Of course" answered the professor.

The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exists?"

The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? ...Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."

"And, does Dark exist?", he continued. The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."

After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.

The young man's name was ALBERT EINSTEIN.


http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
Origins: For those looking for a quick answer to the question of whether this item is literally true, we'll state up front that it is not. Nothing remotely like the account related above appears in any biography or article about Albert Einstein, nor is the account congruent with that scientist's expressed views on the subject of religion (in which he generally described himself as an "agnostic" or a "religious nonbeliever"). Einstein's name has simply been inserted into an anecdote created long after his death in order to provide the reading audience with a recognizable figure and thus lend the tale an air of verisimilitude.

Me ~ Then you can look Einstein's "God does not play dice with the universe" qoute.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by smr   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:29 pm

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I can lead a horse to water but I can not make a horse drink the water.

God exists or God does not exist! That idea of God's existence is something that no one person can answer for another individual. Do you have a relationship with God? No, then how do you know if he exists or does not. I will ask, Are you open to the idea that God exists?


The E wrote:You are confusing rhetoric with actual proof. There is also a logical leap in there: While the points about Cold and Dark being the absence of energy is correct, it does not follow that evil is the absence of god. The first two are implied by physics, the third point is a matter of philosophy (Theology subsection). It is not a conclusive proof for the existance of god, it's a conclusive proof of the existance of belief in the existance of god in the mind of a young student. There's a difference, and you would do well to learn it.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by smr   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:35 pm

smr
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Posts: 1522
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You have to separate the question of God from religion. Einstein most certainly believed in God but did not believe in formal religions!

TN4994 wrote:
smr wrote:Email contributed by Wilma C., June 23, 2004:

The professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did".

The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " "Of course" answered the professor.

The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exists?"

The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? ...Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."

"And, does Dark exist?", he continued. The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."

After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.

The young man's name was ALBERT EINSTEIN.


http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
Origins: For those looking for a quick answer to the question of whether this item is literally true, we'll state up front that it is not. Nothing remotely like the account related above appears in any biography or article about Albert Einstein, nor is the account congruent with that scientist's expressed views on the subject of religion (in which he generally described himself as an "agnostic" or a "religious nonbeliever"). Einstein's name has simply been inserted into an anecdote created long after his death in order to provide the reading audience with a recognizable figure and thus lend the tale an air of verisimilitude.

Me ~ Then you can look Einstein's "God does not play dice with the universe" qoute.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by The E   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:40 pm

The E
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Location: Meerbusch, Germany

smr wrote:I can lead a horse to water but I can not make a horse drink the water.

God exists or God does not exist! That idea of God's existence is something that no one person can answer for another individual.


And yet, cthia here claims to be working on proof! Absolute, definitive proof!

I am confused now: Is your view right? cthias?

Do you have a relationship with God? No, then how do you know if he exists or does not.


A relationship implies mutuality. It implies ackknowledgment of the other party. So far, God has not ackknowledged my existance, or the existance of anyone. All I hear is people claiming he exists. So far, no conclusive evidence has been presented showing clear and unambiguous proof that God exists beyond the minds of those who believe in him.

I will ask, Are you open to the idea that God exists?


I am open to anything that can be proven to exist. I am decidedly not open to the deluded ramblings of a few people who have been dead for millennia. Or, for that matter, the deluded ramblings of people who have no idea what "proof" means.

You have to separate the question of God from religion. Einstein most certainly believed in God but did not believe in formal religions!


So what, are you just going to not even ackknowledge that the little story you told was misattributed at best?
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by TN4994   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:59 pm

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We hear:
"The bible is inspired by God."

But how much of it is hearsay?
We know modifications to the tales started with the first tellings.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by TN4994   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:36 pm

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About the "God does not play dice with the universe" quote.

Look at his views on God.

I'll rephrase it:
"The universe does not play with itself."
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