Guns, Guns Guns

smr wrote:I bet you wish you had this post back. Where are the extremist Christians committing murder in the name of God on innocents. As far vetting Syrian refugees, I have the right as a citizen of the US to demand that our current administration follow the rule of law on immigration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abor ... ted_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... ted_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism ... ks_by_type

Oh, and there's also the report I linked to in my post which you didn't read.

Where do you have the right to tell another country what to do about immigration? Am I correct that you are from Germany or another country other than the US? See to your house that is no longer accepting Syrian refugees.

We've accepted over 200000 refugees. The US has, according to the numbers available to me, accepted 1500. Our borders are still open, yours are pretty much closed; and the only terrorism we've had that was connected to those refugees, like most of the terrorism we've had here for fucking decades, was racist and islamophobic morons torching refugee camps.

Do NOT talk to me about how we're not doing enough for refugees.

The E wrote:...snip...

We've accepted over 200000 refugees. The US has, according to the numbers available to me, accepted 1500. Our borders are still open, yours are pretty much closed; and the only terrorism we've had that was connected to those refugees, like most of the terrorism we've had here for fucking decades, was racist and islamophobic morons torching refugee camps.

Do NOT talk to me about how we're not doing enough for refugees.

Everybody stay a little calm please.

While we haven't accepted many Syrians. Here is a site with numbers of refugees we have accepted. From 2009-2015.
http://immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts ... fact-sheet

Not all refugees are Syrian.

T2M

thinkstoomuch wrote:Not all refugees are Syrian.

T2M

No, they're not, but even looking at the total number of people fleeing ISIS, the US is admitting a ridiculously small number of people into the country. The majority of them end up in the middle east (specifically, Turkey), some get as far as Europe, you guys are seeing really not that many to get so worked up over them as you (or rather, people like smr) do.

And that's before we get into the whole discussion that muslim extremists are not as big a source of domestic terrorism as right-wing extremists are. If smr, in all his wisdom, tells ME to clean up my doorstep, I will point right back at him and all the rhetoric US conservatives keep spouting about the danger immigrants (or liberals, or atheists, or abortions, or the GUVMINT) represent and ask just what the fuck he's doing to reign in these people and the damage they're causing to the fabric of your society.

The E wrote:No, they're not, but even looking at the total number of people fleeing ISIS, the US is admitting a ridiculously small number of people into the country. The majority of them end up in the middle east (specifically, Turkey), some get as far as Europe, you guys are seeing really not that many to get so worked up over them as you (or rather, people like smr) do.

And that's before we get into the whole discussion that muslim extremists are not as big a source of domestic terrorism as right-wing extremists are. If smr, in all his wisdom, tells ME to clean up my doorstep, I will point right back at him and all the rhetoric US conservatives keep spouting about the danger immigrants (or liberals, or atheists, or abortions, or the GUVMINT) represent and ask just what the fuck he's doing to reign in these people and the damage they're causing to the fabric of your society.

Again stay calm. When you start swearing I get like those customer service lines. Mentally I just hang up and quit reading.

If he is upsetting you just put him on the foe list and all his posts require and additional click to view. Works great for me if I don't feel like reading someone I feel is a fool, I don't. I mostly quite enjoy your posts and would rather you continue to make them. I hardly ever agree but it lets me understand things a little better.



That said I would seriously doubt all those right wing terrorist numbers. The Planned Parenthood shooter was a right wing nut. Maybe or just maybe he was a seriously deranged individual. Shrug happens. Why I posted that newspaper article about the "person" who killed 4 and injured 38 with a car(which demonstrated false reporting and the requirement for a 72 hour--maybe should have been 3 week--rule). Sort of like a Hispanic getting his head pounded through the sidewalk and my President taking the side of the thug because he had to say something. Just like my dang President had all kinds of trouble saying the most recent incident was terrorism. Just another case of work place violence, apparently.

Is domestic violence is that right wing nut well to believe the numbers yes. No that is just stupid idiot.

Something like 15% of people killed in the US are killed by strangers. So 4,500 deaths a year have a chance of being a terrorist incident. Most are from violent crime. Hell ~600 are ruled justifiable homicide only 2/3 thirds by police, or something like that.

Either way I am not concerned. Just like I am not concerned with accepting the refugees. A little reason and anybody getting by the camps the US is maintaining in Turkey gets here and kills somebody. Gonna happen. We will go on. Just like the 2% of the Boat lift folk were out and out criminals.

If we want to talk about gun free zones and the likelihood of any active shooter or terrorist has a no bag limit different story. As Correia says speed bumps will suffer but they will probably do a lot of good.

T2M

PS Dang the whole reason I started that Refuge thread worked for a bit.

thinkstoomuch wrote:Again stay calm. When you start swearing I get like those customer service lines. Mentally I just hang up and quit reading.

If he is upsetting you just put him on the foe list and all his posts require and additional click to view. Works great for me if I don't feel like reading someone I feel is a fool, I don't. I mostly quite enjoy your posts and would rather you continue to make them. I hardly ever agree but it lets me understand things a little better.

Sorry, but if I get called a liar and hypocrite by someone who is actively spreading lies and hypocrisy, I am not going to stay calm and collected.

That said I would seriously doubt all those right wing terrorist numbers. The Planned Parenthood shooter was a right wing nut. Maybe or just maybe he was a seriously deranged individual. Shrug happens.

Anyone who gets up in the morning and decides that yeah, today's the day some church or school or government office or rally needs a good shooting at, no matter the reasoning, is a deranged individual. And, to a certain extent, it doesn't matter what creed that person is claiming to follow. But, and this is a question that needs to be asked, is the prevalence of the extreme wing of the US conservative movement to demonize their opposition an enabler for this sort of thing? Does the rhetoric used by people like Trump or Cruz or the NRA play a part in giving these people the excuse they need to abandon reason?
Does the US' cultural hangup on guns as a representation of personal power, a fetish for independence, do more good than bad? Does the ease with which guns can be purchased and carried in your country represent a boon or menace to society?

Coming from a country in which guns are rather rare in public, and in which violent people get caught and subdued quickly before things escalate into multiple homicides, I'm going to have to side with the people who believe that they're bad things to have around.

Another thing is this neat little chart:


You guys have a problem, one way or another. And to add insult to injury, you have chosen to blind your eyes to it by allowing restrictions on research into the causes of gun violence in America to remain. There's science to be done here, but government funding for that science is prohibited because you gave lobbyists free reign over this issue.

The most recent thing appears to be simply someone going postal.

As to why they had such an arsenal will be a very interesting question.

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Yep mass shootings without try to verify any of the actual stories.

462 Killed
1312 Wounded

To this point.

To add a little perspective.

Around 10,000 killed a year in motor vehicle accidents involving alcohol.

Just in 2012 1,335 were killed while driving drunk on a motorcycle. Three times as many.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812035.pdf

A little perspective.

T2M

@gcomeau

When I posted on the forum, the administration was still classifying this incident as work place shooting. This was the 2nd day of the shooting about 1000 to 1100 am cst. They knew who these people were within one hour from 911 calls and witness accounts.

Further, we have politicians saying the same response about the issue of Obama classifying the terrorist attack as workplace violence.

"This business of being workplace violence is just nonsense," the senator continued. "You don't leave the workplace after an argument with somebody and go home and say, 'honey, put on your assault clothes and grab a few bombs and some assault rifles.'" by Senator James Risch

The obama administration only altered their narrative due to political pressure from other politicians and the locald refusing to go along with administration's narrative.

Gcomeau, if you are unable to control yourself maybe you should not own a gun.

How can you enforce a gun ban when you attempt to seize the weapons because many people will fight?

That's right you will have other people do your work...what are you afraid of being shot by turning a citizen into a felon. Oh please before I surrender my firearms they can pry my weapons out of my cold dead hands. Up till 2 years ago, I owned no weapons until my wife was stalked on her way home from work. Now my family owns 3 pistols and 3 semi automatic rifles (that means their single shot/single trigger squeeze weapons.)

Additional Perspective Data.

Firearms Justified Homicide.

In 2013 Law Enforcement 458.

Private Citizen 201.

Not saying killing anyone is a good thing. But these are demonstrated response to bad actors. Not even mentioning all the times a weapon is fired and only wounds an attacker. Like what the illegal sheriff br3eaking and entering.

T2M

thinkstoomuch wrote:Yep mass shootings without try to verify any of the actual stories.

462 Killed
1312 Wounded

To this point.

To add a little perspective.

Around 10,000 killed a year in motor vehicle accidents involving alcohol.

A little more perspective please. How many of those killed in motor accidents were killed because the driver wanted to kill them?

It's one thing to compare those two statistics. But never, ever forget that at the beginning of a mass shooting is always a shooter with the intent to kill people. Most traffic accidents lack such an element of intentionality.