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Guns, Guns Guns

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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by MAD-4A   » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:29 am

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Daryl wrote:MAD-4A, I must compliment you on your polite responses under criticism.

Thank you, for the record I’ve always considered you Ausies as close cousins to us Texans.
Daryl wrote:…US has wealth inequality similar to 3d world countries, not developed countries. A right wing response would be that the land of the free enables people to prosper unhindered, and they then generate wealth for all…as this extreme distribution has steadily increased over time as new laws are passed to facilitate it, and old restrictions on corrupt business behavior are lifted. Generally it is not the hard working innovative entrepreneur generating common wealth that is benefiting from this but the manipulative stock or futures trader who doesn't generate common wealth but exploits loopholes in the system. Not a bigger cake for all, but the same cake cut less fairly.

This isn’t exactly so. It isn’t about how much more that guy has than me. In a 3rd world country (or communist country) the “poor” live in shanty shacks burning dung for light with maybe a piece of card board for a door. If you go through the “poor ghettos“ of America you don’t see the flicker of burning dung in the windows, you see the flicker of TVs and a car sitting in the drive. Despite what the liberals claim, There is very little “poor” in America. What we call “poor” is lower middle class. They have to work harder than the rich but can make it most of the time. The exception are those who refuse to work & want to live off the government dole (& YES I do know some) they are the ones who complain that they need more (don’t tell me that’s not from the same greedy self-interest). And in ANY government there will be the corrupt greedy who will try to ride the system (either poor wanting a free ride or rich wanting to be richer – that’s human nature) the difference is that with a free enterprise system the little guy stands a chance instead of a centrally controlled socialist government run by those same greedy oligarchs who can pass whatever laws they want to instead of having to work for it (and since the 19th century the US has been steadily increasing its restrictions not decreasing them)

Daryl wrote: The percentage of American citizens in the middle class is steadily shrinking, and more and more the middle class is becoming the working poor anyway, where a job is not enough for a family to survive on in dignity.

Sorry, this is erroneous. As I stated there is very little actual “poor” in America these days. The definition of “poor” is being changed to increase the % that are perceived as poor. I would be one of them as I’ve never made more than 20k in any year I’ve worked & have lived in apartments all my life with no way to purchase a house. But I still have electricity, a car TV & internet. Just because I don’t have a “new” car, a $100k house and a retirement fund doesn’t make me poor. I’m lower middle class not “poor”.

Daryl wrote: Uber rich people are using their influence with flexible congressmen to get laws passed that benefit them not the country.

Yes they are having to spend their money to “influence” political leaders. They aren’t the socialist political leaders themselves. So they have to work (& spend) at it. And if any of those leaders are found to be “flexible” & it’s proven, they tend to lose their position quite fast.

Daryl wrote: Now are you going to get a couple of buddies with your M16s into the Chevy pickup and go to Washington? Not very practical, so why keep assault weapons that are not much use for anything else?


Not for some corrupt politician passing a corrupt law, for the big picture – as Thomas Jefferson said “the great thing about the 2rd amendment is that it won’t be needed until it is.” That means that the fact that a honest law abiding citizen having a .357 in his closet is of no significant “threat” to the public. In fact some harden murdering felon having one (registered in his name) in his closet is still no real threat. He wouldn’t use the one in his name to kill someone, he’d get an illegal unregistered gun to do it with, and if suspected would point out that “his” gun doesn’t match the ballistics. And NO gun law EVER created will keep a criminal from using an ILLEAGAL gun to commit a crime (like their going to say “well I was going to rob that bank today & kill all the witnesses but having a gun is illegal, so I can’t – awww.”) Gun control laws only effect those who follow the law, NOT the criminals.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Michael Riddell   » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:14 am

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Well, since we've diverged into social classes and what defines them..... ;)

Last year we had the "Great British Class Survey" which determined that the UK now has seven distinct social classes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_Survey

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/0/21970879

Here's the BBC page where you can determine what you would be as defined by the criteria of the survey:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973

Note that you'll have to convert your income into Pounds Sterling.

Here's an American's take on it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22025328

Seemingly I'm an "Emergent Service Worker"! I'd always classified myself as mid-upper working class.... :shock:

What would you be if you lived in the UK? :twisted:

Mike. ;)
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Gonnae no DAE that!

Why?

Just gonnae NO!
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by namelessfly   » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:44 pm

namelessfly

Everyone should read SHADOW OF FREEDOM, chapter 17
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by namelessfly   » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:44 pm

namelessfly

namelessfly wrote:Everyone should read SHADOW OF FREEDOM, chapter 17



Read Chapter 32 as well.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pokermind   » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:23 pm

pokermind
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Location: Jerome, Idaho, USA

Gun owner respects the beliefs of a liberal neighbor with sign:

Image

Poker
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by namelessfly   » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:03 pm

namelessfly

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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pokermind   » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:34 pm

pokermind
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Posts: 4002
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Location: Jerome, Idaho, USA

WTF! DC Judge Hands Down Conviction for Man Possessing Pieces of Metal (aka Muzzleloader Bullets)

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/dc-judge-hands-down-conviction-for-man-possessing-metal-balls-aka-muzzleloader-bullets/

Lord the gun grabbers in this country are going insane! :lol: But then it really happened so is not really funny.

Poker
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pokermind   » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:31 am

pokermind
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Hmm, is the man in the White House a NAZI? http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2014/02/24/have-you-seen-this-executive-order-if-a-child-confesses-to-a-pediatrician-that-mommy-daddy-have-a-gun-in-the-house-feds-can-disarm-parents/

Obama tells Russian leaders, "US Constitution Is Dead," http://theuspatriot.com/2014/03/07/obama-tells-russian-leader-us-constitution-is-dead/

Hmm, I guess we in flyover country are derided by progressive liberals for not only clinging to our Bibles and guns but, now our US Constitution, too.

Poker
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Eyal   » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:41 pm

Eyal
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You dwellers in flyover country might profit by engaging in a little skepticism when you encounter such over-the-top articles.



An article without any sources - it doesn't even specify the executive order (they have unique designators, don't they?) much less quote it - over the top language, and some factual errors even on a skim (for example, AFAIK the Nazis did not define Jews as "mentally defective", just as subhuman).



Again, no sources. Given the reference to the Ukraine (BTW, I like the statement that the people of the Ukraine "would have no idea about what is happening to them" without that website's report), I assume the article purpotes this happened recently. However, I've seen this same allegation dating from at least 2009. (The Putin quotes also seem rather unlikely).
Last edited by Eyal on Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Eyal   » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:49 pm

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namelessfly wrote:This is why an armed citizenry would adopt a strategy of insurgency that would target the civilian supporters of the would be dictator and the police rather than attempt to engage the military. This worked extremely well in Lebanon. Using the 500:1 rule of thumb for counter insurgency, the US would need nearly one million troops. This is presuming that the usurpers supporters who are predominantly hopliphobes survive the first few days of the hoplites going primeval on their asses.


You realize Lebanon was trashed in the process and has yet to recover? Not to mention that there wasn't really a dominant military opposing them.

There are also several other issues:

1) You're assuiming that gun-rights supporters will be the ones opposing the dictator and gun-control advocates will be the one supporting him. Depending on his exact political affiliation, there's no reason it has to break down like that.
2) You're assuming all the civilian guns are in the hands of the insurgents*.
3) The large size of the US actually works against you in a way, as pretty soon the civilian population will likely be divided geographically along political lines. And your insurgents are going to find it difficult to strike far from home without being intercepted.
4) That kind of action (terrorism, to be blunt) is very much a two-edged sword. You might incite fear in your enemy; OTOH, you might inspire him to perform his own atrocities, while affecting his resolve only to a limited extent.
5) In any realistic scenario, the military will split (we'll assume nukes aren't in play for simplicity). I doubt the military on the insurgents' side will be all too happy to have loose and undisciplined militia running around doing whatever they want (and let's be honest - as seen in past conflicts, a lot of their attacks will likely be to settle personal scores). IINM, this was actually an issue in the early US, between the regular army and the state militias. You could integrate them more tightly with the military, but in that case you might as well hand them military-supplied arms (it will simplify logistics, if nothing else) so their having guns beforehand doesn't matter that much.
OTOH, If the military hasn't split significantly, the insurgents will be facing an undistracted military and police who will be quite happy to wipe them out (see the note above about atrocities).

*we'll label the anti-dictator faction that for convenience's sake.
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