Guns, Guns Guns

Still waiting for a definition of the trip wire or line that must not be crossed.
If it is the accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small number of people who have disproportionate political influence, that has long come to pass in the US.

If it is the passing of laws that the gun lobby type of people regard as socialist, that too has occurred on numerous occasions.

If a government decides to take total power, dispense with elections, and suspend the judicial system; that has not happened. But if a dictator decided to do that they would surely have control of the military. A few buddies in Chevy pickups with M16s wouldn't have a hope.

Who would coordinate this spontaneous uprising? The NRA?

Who's to say if or if not such could come to pass. There was political separation of thought similar to the current vitriol from 1830-1860 prior to the Civil war.

Poker

PS. My favorite joke of the Redneck resistance is the Redneck navy's Kevlar bass boat gun boat

Daryl wrote:Still waiting for a definition of the trip wire or line that must not be crossed.
If it is the accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small number of people who have disproportionate political influence, that has long come to pass in the US.

If it is the passing of laws that the gun lobby type of people regard as socialist, that too has occurred on numerous occasions.

If a government decides to take total power, dispense with elections, and suspend the judicial system; that has not happened. But if a dictator decided to do that they would surely have control of the military. A few buddies in Chevy pickups with M16s wouldn't have a hope.

Who would coordinate this spontaneous uprising? The NRA?

Thing is most of the pro gun types that will be effective understand the dangers and they are not the ones you paint with that huge brush. You, like most want to say pro gun/revolution types and such are stupid know nothings on the other side of the divide.

It doesn't work like that. There is no one thing that causes any revolution. It is a preponderance of things that push people to say what the hell. That simple huge brush is not the way to go. Might as well watch reality TV and think that is all Americans behave or think.

Simple things don't work. Like most of your ideas sound great until the implementation happens. Want to kill the world's best education system. Start offering federal money (controlled by bureaucrats thousands of miles away) for teach the children after all isn't it all "for the children." Makes all kinds of sense. Except the US shows IT DOESN'T WORK. I know we didn't do it right. PBS's Newshour shows the US public is finally getting wise to this stupidity. A step back for that trigger point.

But then we have rabid anti gun types like the following legislator in CA. Not anti gun at all. Just against the law abiding common folk having them. He will work to (allegedly) with you as long as you are a criminal. Copy and pasted from Baen's Bar.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/03/26/fbi-conducting-massive-series-of-raids-across-california/
SAN FRANCISCO (CBS SF) -- Democratic State Senator Leland Yee was arrested Wednesday morning in a series of federal raids in the Bay Area and Sacramento targeting an alleged corruption conspiracy involving arms trafficking and campaign fraud to fund his campaign for Secretary of State.
snipt.
Also arrested in the raid was 54-year-old Raymond "Shrimp Boy" Chow, a former Chinatown gangster who currently heads the Chee Kung Tong masonic organization in San Francisco commonly referred to as the Chinese Freemasons. Agents Wednesday also raided a San Francisco Chinatown building at 36 Spofford St. which houses the Chee Kong Tong.
The charges against Yee include conspiracy to deal firearms without a license, conspiracy to illegally transport firearms, six counts of a scheme to defraud citizens on his services, and wire fraud. A handcuffed and shackled Lee was released on a $500,000 unsecured bond Wednesday evening and was scheduled to return to court Monday to revisit the terms of his release.

A total of 26 people were arrested on a variety of charges, including murder-for-hire, drug trafficking and gun running, according to the federal criminal complaint.
snipt.

Another step back, federal government actually investigating and hopefully fixing a problem in legality and blatant, "Do as I say not as I Do."

Or maybe when a federal agency gets involved in determining political funding <cough cough> the US IRS.

Or an Agency nullifies a law in name of the environment. Which promptly gets "lawyered" into an indian reservation using it to take the land from a state including a moderate sized town in an area where there are no/few towns. Wyoming. [Edit] But there was a Casino right outside that town. Yep I visited that area on one of my trips. [End Edit]

But then again minimum wages are great way to get car manufacturers to move out of a country(like the US and our unions didn't already prove this 40 years ago). Nobody needs to worry about that few thousand jobs or how it will affect the balance of trade in a few years.

T2M

Daryl wrote:Still waiting for a definition of the trip wire or line that must not be crossed.
If it is the accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small number of people who have disproportionate political influence, that has long come to pass in the US.

If it is the passing of laws that the gun lobby type of people regard as socialist, that too has occurred on numerous occasions.

If a government decides to take total power, dispense with elections, and suspend the judicial system; that has not happened. But if a dictator decided to do that they would surely have control of the military. A few buddies in Chevy pickups with M16s wouldn't have a hope.

Who would coordinate this spontaneous uprising? The NRA?

Has anyone considered the idea that the second amendment was created to support the militia, not the rights of gun owners?
Think abou the wording:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The right already exists. "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," This is just stateing that to maintain the militia, dont touch this right.

Why guns are needed:

self defense
hunting
continuation of a free republic

I was work as the night time manager of a La Quinta Inn. 2 black youths entered the lobby and demanded money. They were armed so I gave up the money! About a week or so later, 3 or 4 more local hotels were hit by the robbers and in this case one of the clerks was murdered. The sad thing in this entire case was it took the cops 2 hours to get to my hotel after the robbery. Their justification of the slow response time their was no real danger after the robbery!

I made an assumption of buying the weapon from a licensed dealer. Always store the weapon properly and educate the family in the use of firearms. A person's family should learn how to use, clean, and properly maintain the firearm. Gun safety should be every family's first responsibility. If a family has mentally challenged or disturbed family member either keep the weapons always secured and/or sell it or don't purchase one in that instance.


My lessons that I learned from the experience. The cops only arrive after the crime has been committed. Second, a man or woman that carries a concealed handgun is much more likely never to need or have to use a firearm in self defense. The odds of surviving a robbery or home invasion with a personal firearm go up significantly. I encourage all law abiding citizens to own a firearm and know how to use it. Go to a range and receive instructions on proper firearm use, cleaning, and maintenance. Also, get a concealed handgun license.

SMR, you forgot the most important part. Safe, secure, storage. If you plan to carry just about any gun it is either on your person or locked up.


Second most is make sure you obtain it legally. Self defense becomes harder to establish when you use an illegal weapon. And no telling fibs on the paperwork.

Here in Australia we use them for hunting. I'm probably one of the very few posting here who has supported themselves by legal hunting (admittedly years ago).

Regarding self defence check out the odds of being lethally assaulted in Australia versus the USA, despite self defence not being a legally valid reason to own a gun here.

Despite having a nominal constitutional monarchy we arguably have a freer country than most, and certainly don't need to have armed citizens to ensure that freedom is preserved. Lots of safeguards to ensure that we pick who leads us. While deplorable, our divide between ultra rich and the poor is not as bad as many including the USA.

As an aside to hopefully inform my ignorance regarding various cultures, why was it relevant to mention that the two youths were black?

I do agree that the cops usually turn up too late to help at the time of the crime, yet if less criminals have access to guns then it is less likely that you will be shot while waiting.

smr wrote:Why guns are needed:

self defense
hunting
continuation of a free republic

I was work as the night time manager of a La Quinta Inn. 2 black youths entered the lobby and demanded money. They were armed so I gave up the money! About a week or so later, 3 or 4 more local hotels were hit by the robbers and in this case one of the clerks was murdered. The sad thing in this entire case was it took the cops 2 hours to get to my hotel after the robbery. Their justification of the slow response time their was no real danger after the robbery!

My lessons that I learned from the experience. The cops only arrive after the crime has been committed. Second, a man or woman that carries a concealed handgun is much more likely never to need or have to use a firearm in self defense. The odds of surviving a robbery or home invasion with a personal firearm go up significantly. I encourage all law abiding citizens to own a firearm and know how to use it. Go to a range and receive instructions on proper firearm use, cleaning, and maintenance. Also, get a concealed handgun license.

Daryl you forget. Most of the southern US states think the civil war is just having a bit of a pause :p

Annachie wrote:SMR, you forgot the most important part. Safe, secure, storage. If you plan to carry just about any gun it is either on your person or locked up.


Second most is make sure you obtain it legally. Self defense becomes harder to establish when you use an illegal weapon. And no telling fibs on the paperwork.

And a big +1 to those. All that needs added to that is that the legal way of obtaining it actually makes sure that blatantly unsuitable people gets blocked from a purchase and license.

At that point, gun ownership is by itself no longer any real problem(or at least not a BIG one).

Daryl you forget. Most of the southern US states think the civil war is just having a bit of a pause :p

Yes, I am from the South. What I learned in the Army that everyone has their built-in bias but everyone bleeds red. Their are good and bad people of every race! Heck, I almost married this beautiful Brazilian black woman. I would have married her if the families did not act like the Hatfields and McCoys. (Second, she did not want to move to Texas but wanted to continue to live in Rio together!) So to blindly assume that I am racist is incorrect. My dad was a yankee and my mother was English. What if I identified them as spanish or hispanic? According to your post Daryl, it would be implied that I am still a racist. Remember the experience of someone sticking a gun in your face is fairly traumatic event. I will point out that this point is immaterial to the gun control argument or debate. So, let's get back in topic.

Let's take a look at Mexico. Unless your rich, a person can not own a weapon. The people like the cartels ignore the law and arm themselves with automatic weapons! Now, in Northern Mexico in the rural areas, the villages have started to band together and form the knight templars or similar types of militia's to fight the cartels. The villagers have gotten tired of having their people killed, being taxed by the cartels, corrupt police, corrupt soldiers, and their children used as prostitutes or slave labor. The government of Mexico is weak and corrupt. As a result, the villagers have used single shot rifles and cell phones to fight back. (Now, most of them have automatic weapons from recovery them from the dead cartel soldiers.) They now slaughter anyone working with the cartels. The real sad part of the story is the government wants to register those weapons and villagers have basically thumbed their nose at the state and federal governments.

Daryl, I am perfectly willing to discuss guns but I am not willing to discuss race in a gun debate because it's not germaine (appropriate) to the issue and the subject is off topic in regards to the forum heading. Also I feel like it's a red herring!

Daryl wrote:Here in Australia we use them for hunting. I'm probably one of the very few posting here who has supported themselves by legal hunting (admittedly years ago).

Regarding self defence check out the odds of being lethally assaulted in Australia versus the USA, despite self defence not being a legally valid reason to own a gun here.

Despite having a nominal constitutional monarchy we arguably have a freer country than most, and certainly don't need to have armed citizens to ensure that freedom is preserved. Lots of safeguards to ensure that we pick who leads us. While deplorable, our divide between ultra rich and the poor is not as bad as many including the USA.

As an aside to hopefully inform my ignorance regarding various cultures, why was it relevant to mention that the two youths were black?

I do agree that the cops usually turn up too late to help at the time of the crime, yet if less criminals have access to guns then it is less likely that you will be shot while waiting.

smr wrote:Why guns are needed:

self defense
hunting
continuation of a free republic

I was work as the night time manager of a La Quinta Inn. 2 black youths entered the lobby and demanded money. They were armed so I gave up the money! About a week or so later, 3 or 4 more local hotels were hit by the robbers and in this case one of the clerks was murdered. The sad thing in this entire case was it took the cops 2 hours to get to my hotel after the robbery. Their justification of the slow response time their was no real danger after the robbery!

My lessons that I learned from the experience. The cops only arrive after the crime has been committed. Second, a man or woman that carries a concealed handgun is much more likely never to need or have to use a firearm in self defense. The odds of surviving a robbery or home invasion with a personal firearm go up significantly. I encourage all law abiding citizens to own a firearm and know how to use it. Go to a range and receive instructions on proper firearm use, cleaning, and maintenance. Also, get a concealed handgun license.