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Are high minimum wages ethical?
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by biochem
» Sun May 01, 2016 2:17 pm
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biochem
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Re the ethics of the minimum wage. I think it is unethical to raise the minimum wage to high levels without first fixing the lousy trade deals etc, which have wrecked the bottom part of the economy.
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by PeterZ
» Mon May 02, 2016 10:40 am
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PeterZ
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Don't forget immigration. Having a wide open border simply increases the incentive to hire illegals as the minimum wage increases. Why bother increasing the minimum wage and keep law abiding workers unemployed as illegals accept below legal wages? They are already willing to break the law entering the country. There would be little incentive for them to refrain from further break the law by working under the table.
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by Imaginos1892
» Mon May 02, 2016 10:18 pm
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Imaginos1892
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Passed a bunch of protesters today, picketing some business and demanding more money. I wanted to ask them:
Of course they will whine about inflation. I want to know, what do those dumbshits think causes inflation? I say it's caused by everybody that demands more money for the same value. ----------------- It is not within the power of any government to increase the value of unskilled labor, only to raise its cost. |
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by Daryl
» Tue May 03, 2016 12:47 am
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Daryl
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Perhaps the employer is already making windfall profits from the hard work they have already done, and will continue to do so in the future. The employer probably has already raised his prices because of inflation, and conveniently forgotten to raise their wages proportionately.
How do you know that they are doing the same old job in the same way? Most organisations today are continually chasing an efficiency dividend, which usually means the staff (not management) have to work harder, and give up conditions.
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by Annachie
» Tue May 03, 2016 4:52 am
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Annachie
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I suppose we should ask Are low minum wages ethical?
Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ still not dead.  |
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by PeterZ
» Tue May 03, 2016 7:46 am
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PeterZ
Posts: 6432
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What does it matter if full time jobs pay more than that minimum?
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by Daryl
» Tue May 03, 2016 7:57 pm
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Daryl
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True, if all full time wages paid more than that minimum. However if that was the case there wouldn't be any resistance to raising that minimum.
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by PeterZ
» Wed May 04, 2016 7:59 am
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PeterZ
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Except for all the jobs that aren't worth the new minimum wage. That work disappears. Some people truly haven't developed skills sufficient to be paid wages above some level. They simply aren't that productive yet. With time and experience they will be. How do they get experience if employers are legally barred from employing them on mutually beneficial terms? There are few employers that will hire someone knowing they will lose money for doing so. A lower wage would incent them to take a chance.
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by Daryl
» Wed May 04, 2016 5:35 pm
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Daryl
Posts: 3598
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I understand your argument, but we look at it differently. You'd call it socialism, but we have a welfare net that guarantees basic survival for all citizens. If an employer offers less (or even the same) for full time adult work it is not mutually beneficial, but demeaning to the worker.
I'm probably (as usual) wrong, but I get the impression from some of the US posters here that the employer is seen as superior and more deserving than the worker, and thus entitled to set the rules. We see them as equals who should end up in a true mutually beneficial relationship. |
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by PeterZ
» Wed May 04, 2016 5:55 pm
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PeterZ
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Definitely a misperception. Employers are valuable in that they have ideas they need help executing. Because they need help, they offer opportunities for people with skills they wish to sell. The employer takes the risk of losing capital in his endeavor, either his/her savings or what he borrows. The employee simply risks the continuity of a future wage. Its not that we believe employers are inherently better, its that we recognize the additional risk they take.
So, when those with a skill agree to the offered wage of an employer, both parties have a sustainable relationship. Forcing limits on what both parties can agree to limits the number of mutually beneficial solutions. This tend to decrease the total number of jobs that can be created and so limits the number of people with various level of skills that can earn a wage. I am not sure of anyone else, but I get tired of the primary focus on employees. They are important, sure. But employers, mainly small businesses are equally important. Regulations that weigh down their ability to employ people harms more often than it helps in recent years. Any set of rules need to protect both parties and not advantage one party to the exclusion of the other.
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