Guns, Guns Guns

namelessfly wrote:Who did the escalating?

I think the police force that rolled up in armored vehicles and kitted out for urban warfare did. Of course, it might just have been the protesters; they can get awfully noisy at times.

namelessfly wrote:Thought this would provoke some thought.

http://www.westernfreepress.com/2014/08 ... ve-on-cnn/

Here's a thought:
When reading paragraphs like this:

It is not yet known who was holding the sign and why they may have been holding it, but this could be another reminder of the terror group’s intentions to attack the United States and raise the white flag at the White House, a vow they made last week in a video that aired from one of the terror group’s leaders.

Do you just nod your head and say "Yes, those are reasonable concerns?"

Because, from where I'm standing, a sentence that starts with "We don't know why that person did this" and doesn't end right there is making a completely bullshit statement. You don't know why that person had that banner. End of story.

Just FYI, I object to both the dereliction of duty by American police and their militarization. If you judge US cops by their actual job performance as measured by arrest rates for real crimes such as murder, rape, robbery and agrevated assault, we would arrest most of them for loitering. Police in other "civilized" countries are far more adept and diligent than American cops. You have to go to real fecal cavities such as Zimbabwe or Mexico to find police forces that routinely fail to solve most murders. All of the propaganda about being "outgunned" by the criminals is a convenient distraction from this dereliction of duty. The antigun propaganda about there being a drug dealer or gang banger hiding under every bed inspires paranoia by the police that often does lead to the use of excessive force. A classic example is the Portland Police whose SWAT team pumped 28 rounds into an African American grandfather including 22 rounds in his back after he collapsed because they mistook a Butane lighter for a gun. The propaganda also is used to deflect criticism for excessive use of force and even domestic violence by cops. A most egregious example is the Portland cop who wounded his wife in an obscenely brutal manner because he neglected to unload his shotgun before sodomizing her with it. The PDX PD did not appreciate my suggestion that they institute a program to distribute Kevlar condoms to their officers so that they can practice safe shotgun sex. Don't get me started on the Waco travesty.

The police who rolled up in armored vehicles escalated, but the local and national poverty pimping industrial complex had already escalated by inciting the riots with false claims about the circumstances of the shooting and objecting to the normal Grand Jury process before it had
even begun. This is nothing more than an extortion and profiteering racket perpetrated by professional poverty pimps such as Jessie Jackson, Parks and Crump.


You are correct that we do not know who was holding the ISIS flag and what their motivation was. We also do not know if they or other protestors understood that it was an ISIS flag. However; the presence of that flag and the failure of the protestors to object provokes legitimate concerns about who is inciting or exploiting these riots.

The E wrote:

namelessfly wrote:Who did the escalating?

I think the police force that rolled up in armored vehicles and kitted out for urban warfare did. Of course, it might just have been the protesters; they can get awfully noisy at times.

namelessfly wrote:Thought this would provoke some thought.

http://www.westernfreepress.com/2014/08 ... ve-on-cnn/

Here's a thought:
When reading paragraphs like this:

It is not yet known who was holding the sign and why they may have been holding it, but this could be another reminder of the terror group’s intentions to attack the United States and raise the white flag at the White House, a vow they made last week in a video that aired from one of the terror group’s leaders.

Do you just nod your head and say "Yes, those are reasonable concerns?"

Because, from where I'm standing, a sentence that starts with "We don't know why that person did this" and doesn't end right there is making a completely bullshit statement. You don't know why that person had that banner. End of story.

namelessfly wrote:You are correct that we do not know who was holding the ISIS flag and what their motivation was. We also do not know if they or other protestors understood that it was an ISIS flag. However; the presence of that flag and the failure of the protestors to object provokes legitimate concerns about who is inciting or exploiting these riots.

Really? Is a history of racially prejudiced police violence not enough to explain what is happening? Does there have to be some nebulous other that incites good, ordinary citizens to violence? And what do you know about this incident beyond what was reported? Just like I have trouble deriving the existence of UFOs from blurry photographs, shaky videos and the utterings of confused people, so it is here. The presence of an ISIS banner does not an underground movement make.

I think at least part of your problem with your police is the different levels of police, and police power, with county, city, state and federal police, and the fact that only the federals have an overarching set of laws that they can follow country wide. NZ and european countries have one set of police, and one set of laws country wide, and the police here have to go to a special training school for 4 months, plus spend 21 months on probationary monitoring, to ensure they do the job right and well. I read something about the current problems stemming from having a different, out of town bunch of cops trying to police an area. wouldnt happen here, as they are all the same cops.

namelessfly wrote:Just FYI, I object to both the dereliction of duty by American police and their militarization. If you judge US cops by their actual job performance as measured by arrest rates for real crimes such as murder, rape, robbery and agrevated assault, we would arrest most of them for loitering. Police in other "civilized" countries are far more adept and diligent than American cops. You have to go to real fecal cavities such as Zimbabwe or Mexico to find police forces that routinely fail to solve most murders. All of the propaganda about being "outgunned" by the criminals is a convenient distraction from this dereliction of duty. The antigun propaganda about there being a drug dealer or gang banger hiding under every bed inspires paranoia by the police that often does lead to the use of excessive force. A classic example is the Portland Police whose SWAT team pumped 28 rounds into an African American grandfather including 22 rounds in his back after he collapsed because they mistook a Butane lighter for a gun. The propaganda also is used to deflect criticism for excessive use of force and even domestic violence by cops. A most egregious example is the Portland cop who wounded his wife in an obscenely brutal manner because he neglected to unload his shotgun before sodomizing her with it. The PDX PD did not appreciate my suggestion that they institute a program to distribute Kevlar condoms to their officers so that they can practice safe shotgun sex. Don't get me started on the Waco travesty.

The police who rolled up in armored vehicles escalated, but the local and national poverty pimping industrial complex had already escalated by inciting the riots with false claims about the circumstances of the shooting and objecting to the normal Grand Jury process before it had
even begun. This is nothing more than an extortion and profiteering racket perpetrated by professional poverty pimps such as Jessie Jackson, Parks and Crump.

In Australia we have seven sets of State Police who are the main police forces. It used to be a significant problem but in recent years they have integrated their databases, methods, and do communicate well. Generally they are effective and well respected (not feared).
The various States have also done a lot towards unifying their laws, and allowing cross border policing.
While we have a Federal Police they are relatively small, have a circumscribed sphere of responsibility, and in my opinion are not all that effective.

What we don't have are local police that are politicised by either being elected themselves, or reporting directly to local authorities. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. We also don't have or want a National Guard type force.

Good point Daryl. forgot about the political joinings of the police in the US.

Daryl wrote:In Australia we have seven sets of State Police who are the main police forces. It used to be a significant problem but in recent years they have integrated their databases, methods, and do communicate well. Generally they are effective and well respected (not feared).
The various States have also done a lot towards unifying their laws, and allowing cross border policing.
While we have a Federal Police they are relatively small, have a circumscribed sphere of responsibility, and in my opinion are not all that effective.

What we don't have are local police that are politicised by either being elected themselves, or reporting directly to local authorities. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. We also don't have or want a National Guard type force.

namelessfly wrote:Just thought that I would post this for all of the folk who think that the Fergusson shooting was unjustified.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08 ... ike-brown/

That does not determine if the shooting was justified or not.

Just a short comment probably only one I will make for a while. Just and FYI about my posting habits.

Funny Australia divides it into state type levels which are much larger in land area than most countries. Especially in Europe. Kind of the reason such Nationalization of Law Enforcement in the US is a bad thing.

Sharing data is a good thing, sharing training depending on bureaucratic involvement would be horrible. Pictures using the same Hiway maintenance department training in Florida as New York State or Oregon--that hurts. Though I guess for some things Michagan and Florida are the same both are built on sand. Climate not so much.

Not that I agree about not having the local level "Peace Officers". Which is a much different critter than a "Law Enforcement Officer". Still remember the learning "lessons" I was taught by the local peace officers.

But Peace Officers get no funding especially for the neat military and SWAT level gear. Which is as it should be, IMO, Bureaucrats not so much. We all have to have self empowerment and such things. Title is more important than doing the job right. <shrug>

Now returning you to the regular programming,
T2M

Spacekiwi wrote:Good point Daryl. forgot about the political joinings of the police in the US.

Daryl wrote:In Australia we have seven sets of State Police who are the main police forces. It used to be a significant problem but in recent years they have integrated their databases, methods, and do communicate well. Generally they are effective and well respected (not feared).
The various States have also done a lot towards unifying their laws, and allowing cross border policing.
While we have a Federal Police they are relatively small, have a circumscribed sphere of responsibility, and in my opinion are not all that effective.

What we don't have are local police that are politicised by either being elected themselves, or reporting directly to local authorities. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. We also don't have or want a National Guard type force.

Just had a thought on that ISIS banner. Could it have been advertising? Think about it. The biggest instance of rioting against government in the US since IS declared itself a Caliphate. Every disaffected, bitter, establishment hating person with access to tv and internet in the US is going to be watching what happens regardless what happens in the middle east. If you were running the IS propaganda ministry and you had a chance to get that sort of "frontage", how could you pass it up? Does anyone know how long into the riots that banner showed up?

Just a thought.

This would be many Americans response to that type of thinking. This is why many American veterans are armed to the teeth!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/21/a-subtle-message-to-isis-from-ticked-off-military-veteran-should-send-a-chill-down-the-spine-of-every-terrorist/

Invictus wrote:Just had a thought on that ISIS banner. Could it have been advertising? Think about it. The biggest instance of rioting against government in the US since IS declared itself a Caliphate. Every disaffected, bitter, establishment hating person with access to tv and internet in the US is going to be watching what happens regardless what happens in the middle east. If you were running the IS propaganda ministry and you had a chance to get that sort of "frontage", how could you pass it up? Does anyone know how long into the riots that banner showed up?

Just a thought.