Guns, Guns Guns

pokermind wrote:Especially considering this was also on FB http://www.easybakegunclub.com/news/5337/Rent-a-Machine-Gun-Accident%3A-Safety-Officer-Killed.html a nine year old girl with an UZI WTF! well it wasn't crew served weapon

You joke, but a crew-served weapon would probably have been safer. If you take say an FN MAG, unless you're trying to shoot it from the hip (which a 9-year-old would be unable to do), I can think of a few ways you might hurt yourself but not of a realistic way you could kill yourself or someone else (absent some idiot wandering downrange).

Most heavyly armed counties in the USA:



From http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/31/take-a-gander-at-americas-most-heavily-armed-counties-the-ones-that-arent-on-the-map-might-surprise-you/

Poker

Datas a bit out of date. info comes from a CDC self reporting survey between 2003 and 2009, so 5 years out of date at least, and until 2008 only contacted people via listed landline phone numbers, and only one person was asked questions. Cell phones were only contacted 2011 onwards. Also, looking through the questionnaire, couldnt sem to find the actual firearms questions. Useful data, but not quite as clear info as I would like.

pokermind wrote:Most heavyly armed counties in the USA:



From http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/31/take-a-gander-at-americas-most-heavily-armed-counties-the-ones-that-arent-on-the-map-might-surprise-you/

Poker

It's kinda of funny, we were at work on 10/2/2014 discussing personal weapons. So we had a Brit and 2 Americans discussing weapons. Guess who had no personal firearms. Me! Now, I am in the process of securing a gun locker and a small gun safe/night stand before I buy a rifle and pistol. My wife and I have to take a gun safety course and the concealed handgun class before purchasing a weapon. The gun shop owns a range and will allow her to rent a weapon(s) before purchase. She has never fired a weapon but wants to be use one. That's good marketing...getting her comfortable with a weapon before she purchases a pistol. (Also, a way to upsale her on a firearm!) I know this is going to cost me at least the arm or the leg. This all started over a Road rage incident that occurred when she was coming from work one night.

There was an episode of Gargoyles where one of the characters accidentally shot another one. The episode had the one who was shot needing hospital treatment and being on crutches for the next few episodes as well as being more careful as to where she put her gun when she didn't need it for her job (as a cop).

Perhaps the children-hurt-by-playing-with-guns rate would go down if children (and parents) were required to watch that episode and discuss what happened...

That and Gargoyles was/is a damned good series...

Damn Disney for not releasing it on DVD in Europe...

The few who have read my previous comments here may remember that although I've owned guns and used them for more than 50 years I deplore the state the USA is in with so many guns available. That said, while I'm very happy that my country has much more stringent regulations, if I was living in the USA I'd probably have something for self defence.

But (big BUT) I have extensive experience with weapons, and I'd worry that having someone who is inexperienced and quite possibly not confident in using a gun makes it more dangerous to have one than not.
Having a weapon does not provide armour, but it may provide justification for your opponent to use deadly force against you.

smr wrote:It's kinda of funny, we were at work on 10/2/2014 discussing personal weapons. So we had a Brit and 2 Americans discussing weapons. Guess who had no personal firearms. Me! Now, I am in the process of securing a gun locker and a small gun safe/night stand before I buy a rifle and pistol. My wife and I have to take a gun safety course and the concealed handgun class before purchasing a weapon. The gun shop owns a range and will allow her to rent a weapon(s) before purchase. She has never fired a weapon but wants to be use one. That's good marketing...getting her comfortable with a weapon before she purchases a pistol. (Also, a way to upsale her on a firearm!) I know this is going to cost me at least the arm or the leg. This all started over a Road rage incident that occurred when she was coming from work one night.

Daryl was not Australia one of the countries that were going to have Jihadists behead fellow Australians. At least here in America I can shoot Jihadists in the act of murder at least in Texas! How are you going to defend your family...your children.....and/or your grandchildren? The person that followed my wife was driving a stolen car. The only consolation is the restaurant had cameras and I at least know what he looks like. If this particular individual ever shows up on my property, I intend to put him down like a rabid dog. Gun Laws are designed to keep the regular citizens from owning weapons. The criminals will always have the upper hand because the ignore the laws of any country! It's better to be shot as a wolf rather than beheaded like a lamb led to slaughter! So which are you the Wolf or the Lamb! Notice, the cops are always there after incident but how many do they stop in progress?

Second, I have extensive use of firearms! I am following the law by taking a gun safety class and also I am going to take concealed weapons permit class. My wife just wants to feel safe again. She was given quite a scare.

Third, I have a step son and he will be instructed on how to shoot. Yes, I am starting him out on a .22 rifle. That's what I learned to shoot with. The gun shop has a competition team and my son wants to join.

Daryl wrote:The few who have read my previous comments here may remember that although I've owned guns and used them for more than 50 years I deplore the state the USA is in with so many guns available. That said, while I'm very happy that my country has much more stringent regulations, if I was living in the USA I'd probably have something for self defence.

But (big BUT) I have extensive experience with weapons, and I'd worry that having someone who is inexperienced and quite possibly not confident in using a gun makes it more dangerous to have one than not.
Having a weapon does not provide armour, but it may provide justification for your opponent to use deadly force against you.

smr wrote:It's kinda of funny, we were at work on 10/2/2014 discussing personal weapons. So we had a Brit and 2 Americans discussing weapons. Guess who had no personal firearms. Me! Now, I am in the process of securing a gun locker and a small gun safe/night stand before I buy a rifle and pistol. My wife and I have to take a gun safety course and the concealed handgun class before purchasing a weapon. The gun shop owns a range and will allow her to rent a weapon(s) before purchase. She has never fired a weapon but wants to be use one. That's good marketing...getting her comfortable with a weapon before she purchases a pistol. (Also, a way to upsale her on a firearm!) I know this is going to cost me at least the arm or the leg. This all started over a Road rage incident that occurred when she was coming from work one night.

This line is actually part of the point of these laws. WHat is a criminal but a normal person gone bad? the laws are not trying to stop all gun crime, just make it harder for domestic assaults with weapons, to make it harder for those with mental problems from gaining guns, reducing the amount of guns available to be stolen etc. In NZ, a large protion of our gun injuries/deaths are now either due to people with gun licenses being stupid or having a mental breakdown, although this one is rare. Last major gun death here was a hunter nor checking before shooting, and another before that was a guy leaving a loaded rifle with two 6 year olds to play with. Gun control laws can work, if you can enforce them properly, and if you can get the normal person to realise that they are safer if they and the criminals dont have guns, as oppsed to both sides having guns.

smr wrote: [b]Gun Laws are designed to keep the regular citizens from owning weapons. /b]

Good point about the enforcement of current gun laws, here in America we have about 20,000 to 30,000 gun laws on the books. We do not need more gun laws. We need the enforcement of the existing laws.

Recently, we had a Jihadist in Oklahoma behead one woman and attempted to kill another woman. At the factory, an employee or management had a pistol and shot the Jihadist dead. Instead of mass killing spree, we had one killed and one wounded. By the way, they did not classify this terrorism but as a work place shooting.

In America, the Democrats believe we should not own any guns. Recently in New York, they banned pistols that fired more than 5 shots. They had outlawed people from having concealed handguns. Well, we the people have begun to push back. We have billionaire's trying to buy off state legislatures to rid us of guns. Michael Bloomberg funds a group of mother's against guns to $100,000,000 usd per year. When Michael Bloomber retired from NYC as mayor he got to keep his 20 NYC police detail for the rest of his life. Why should he have security and we the average citizens can not own a weapon. Where is the logic in that type of thinking. Remember to always follow the money.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/10/04/gruesome-discovery-outside-mexican-town-where-43-college-students-went-missing-last-weekend/

This is what happens to country where are private gun ownership is banned.

I wonder what would have happened to the police if the relatives of the families were armed. They would have strung up the local police and the corrupt city government officials! Are the cartels going to be punished....not in Mexico!

Spacekiwi wrote:This line is actually part of the point of these laws. WHat is a criminal but a normal person gone bad? the laws are not trying to stop all gun crime, just make it harder for domestic assaults with weapons, to make it harder for those with mental problems from gaining guns, reducing the amount of guns available to be stolen etc. In NZ, a large protion of our gun injuries/deaths are now either due to people with gun licenses being stupid or having a mental breakdown, although this one is rare. Last major gun death here was a hunter nor checking before shooting, and another before that was a guy leaving a loaded rifle with two 6 year olds to play with. Gun control laws can work, if you can enforce them properly, and if you can get the normal person to realise that they are safer if they and the criminals dont have guns, as oppsed to both sides having guns.

smr wrote: [b]Gun Laws are designed to keep the regular citizens from owning weapons. /b]

SMR, as usual I've proved to be a poor communicator as you obviously haven't received the message I was trying to send.
I'll answer your points in dot point just to be pedantic.

1. Australia has a population of about 23M, of which 2% are Moslem or 460K. From these statistically good citizens we have 50 lunatics in ISIS. The fellow who had his kid hold up a head had not long before been released from jail on a sentence for drug and alcohol abuse while a bouncer at a night club. Not a Jihadist or true Moslem just a thick thug who likes hurting people.

2. Jihadists are not a significant problem here or from what I can gather anywhere else except the Middle East.

3. How am I going to defend my family etc? Firstly in Australia (or New Zealand) we have a much lower incident of violent crime than the US does, and very few of them have guns. Secondly no one can be everywhere all of their family are to defend them, but in the most unlikely instance that I was, I'd cope. Taught to shoot at 8, given a 22 on my 10th birthday, a 303 on my 15th, a very classy side by side 12 gauge on my 21st. During all those years used a gun as a daily tool on our station (ranch). Amongst other things worked as a hunter of dingoes, kangaroos, and feral razorback pigs to pay my way through University. I still have a number of legal guns, crossbows, compound bows, and real swords. Did I mention my Tae Kwon Do and Aikido belts? I'm probably more of a dire wolf than a lamb.

4. All of my kids have been trained in the safe use of guns also, but more importantly in how to avoid trouble in the first place.

5. I dispute the statement that the criminals always have the upper hand, as crime levels have been dropping in our safe country for years. It is estimated that 80% of our crime is petty burglary and such from drug users. My preference would be to legalise it all, have the government sell it cheaply, and let Darwin sort them out. Criminals do obey the law of the land nearly all the time otherwise they would be quickly locked up, they just break it when they see an advantage to them.

6. Calling a lunatic disgruntled ex employee a Jihadist in contradiction of the authorities who actually investigated the incident is not proof.

7. The central point I was trying to make is that if there is a serious incident, and your wife produces a gun that she hasn't spent years using she is likely to be more at risk, as a road rager can legitimately say he shot her in self defence.


"Daryl was not Australia one of the countries that were going to have Jihadists behead fellow Australians. At least here in America I can shoot Jihadists in the act of murder at least in Texas! How are you going to defend your family...your children.....and/or your grandchildren? The person that followed my wife was driving a stolen car. The only consolation is the restaurant had cameras and I at least know what he looks like. If this particular individual ever shows up on my property, I intend to put him down like a rabid dog. Gun Laws are designed to keep the regular citizens from owning weapons. The criminals will always have the upper hand because the ignore the laws of any country! It's better to be shot as a wolf rather than beheaded like a lamb led to slaughter! So which are you the Wolf or the Lamb! Notice, the cops are always there after incident but how many do they stop in progress?

Second, I have extensive use of firearms! I am following the law by taking a gun safety class and also I am going to take concealed weapons permit class. My wife just wants to feel safe again. She was given quite a scare.

Third, I have a step son and he will be instructed on how to shoot. Yes, I am starting him out on a .22 rifle. That's what I learned to shoot with. The gun shop has a competition team and my son wants to join."