Guns, Guns Guns

Tenshinai wrote:

Donnachaidh wrote:I think everyone here would appreciate you not talking about things you do not understand and have little to know experience with.

It's very frustrating and maddening when you listen to someone who hasn't lived there and doesn't know how things works tell you how things work in where you live.

Well, what a lovely little condescending snob reply.

Thing is you see, unlike the majority of americans, me and a lot of other people from the rest of the world actually likes knowing more about that same "rest of the world", and woe and behold, we spend time to find out!

You seem incapable of understanding that.

Tenshinai wrote:

Donnachaidh wrote:Mostly it's the condescending tone Tenshinai manages to have in almost every post. Neither you nor Spacekiwi have had that tone nor do you attack, rather you address specific points in a calm, polite, and reasonable manner.

Funny how you say that. Since i´m basically just adjusting myself to YOUR tone when replying to you.
And the first quote in this post, is the most condescending so far in this thread.
Written by YOU. Hypocrite. That´s you.

And if the pro-gun crowd actually had good arguments, i wouldn´t have to laugh at them as hard.

Tenshinai wrote:

Donnachaidh wrote:I think a lot of the reason gun control is such an issue in the US and why many people outside the US have trouble understanding why its an issue and why we have such strong feelings about it ultimately goes back to history.
...

Oh dear no. I know perfectly well about that. That is no reason for frivolous gunlaws however. And really, it just says "we live way in the past" very loudly in a hickie accent.

And i just wish that americans could quit whining about the "constitutional right", because it´s bullshit.
I´m a linguist and historian by trade, and it´s completely obvious that the amendment in question refers to gun rights in relation to a militia.
A militia which by the way is also supposed to be the ONLY armed forces of the nation.

Argue for rights to own or wear guns based on logic instead of the poor piece of paper that 99% of the population can´t even read properly, simply because intent of the wording have drifted over time.

Tenshinai wrote:*****

JimHacker wrote:I dn't think Tenshinani has been particularly rude, but I do think he's getting a bit frustrated running into a brick wall with some people on the 'more guns = less crime' front. The fact that people on both sides blatantly cherry-pick examples doesn't really help discussion.

Oh i´m being very nice overall here, you should see how i argue with friends. Or on Swedish forums.
Overall, i tend to match myself to those i reply to.

On US forums it seems it´s fine to be rude to any degree, as long as you don´t actually straight out say it honestly.
Perhaps it has something to do with US schools having rethorics and debating clubs as standard, something completely absent here...
And just now i most likely proved that i know more about USA than Donnachaid knows about Sweden... Again.


Also, it´s very absurd getting hit at with usual crap of the "guns guns guns!" crowd when i´m not even an opponent of gun ownership. Just an opponent of IRRESPONSIBLE gun ownership or EASY gun purchase.

There IS a direct correlation between availability of guns, and gun crime. That is simply a fact. That does not mean that low ownership equats to low gun crime, but instead such places gets even worse with easier availability.

But the real mistake the "more guns" crowd make is to assume that those who wants restrictions only wants less raw numbers.
Personally, i want gun purchase to not be a trivial thing and storage to be an equally non-trivial thing, because then, even with many guns, availability is still not high.

But shouting out to arm teachers at schools? That is simply insane. I shouldn´t even need to say that it is an extremely bad idea, it should be VERY obvious.

I can guarantee, that had any of my teachers had weapons at the school when i was a kid, i would have gotten ahold of one before age 12, guaranteed.
Since i was responsible even as a kid, chances are decent that i would neither get myself or others killed or hurt, but this is NOT how kids are overall.
And even i had plenty of *oops* moments (i learned caution specifically because i was a bit fumbly), and having a gun go off by accident, even if no fault of your own, is still a gun that goes off and can kill someone through a window or even a thin wall or door.

pokermind wrote:Libels know that the repeal won't pass so they keep trying end runs to break the rules, well I don't like people who cheat at cards either, it infuriates me.

Poker

RandomGraysuit wrote:

pokermind wrote:Libels know that the repeal won't pass so they keep trying end runs to break the rules, well I don't like people who cheat at cards either, it infuriates me.

Poker

You know what infuriates the hell out of me? People who don't know when they're the game, and they're getting played all day long.

Your "Dirty pinko commie gun-snatching librul" is an idea you're getting fed like a pig at a trough, and you obviously can't get enough of it. There are a handful of wingnuts like Feinstein who don't stand a chance in hell of getting their pet legislation passed under this Supreme Court, but because of them you can't find an AR-15 lower receiver to save your life. Ammunition of all things has gone into panic buying.

Meanwhile, we have about a hundred Congressmen who've just been sworn in and immediately publicly stated they don't believe in the 'validity of the public debt' as written in the Fourteenth Amendment.

If you want to play the Constitution card, you have to actually demonstrate you believe the Constitution is useful for more than wiping your butt.

Daryl wrote:After a particularly nasty mass shooting (Port Arthur) both sides of politics in Australia got together to bring in new laws that ban assault type weapons (semi or full auto like AR15 or SKS) and large magazines. Just today it was revealed that we now have more legal guns in private ownership than we did then, but haven't had a massacre for 16 years. Pretty good proof in a similar society to that of the US that legal guns aren't a problem as long as a nutter can't do mass murder with one (stolen or whatever).
To probably upset some, a joke about the demographic is that pit bulls are the only dogs that have a higher IQ than their owners, and that pit bull owners used to have assault weapons as part of the compensation package.

pokermind wrote:How to Make a Matchlock Musket:


Match/Wheel-Lock Hand Mortar made by Elmer and me, and My Flintlock Revolver.

I thought I might discuss Gunsmithing a little. My first was built following detailed plans that I spent some two years of spare time drawing and refining, and two years part time in the Engineering department’s Machine Shop making, I was proud of my Flintlock revolver and knew I had something few if any other muzzleloaders had. Well one thing I soon learned is that I was not alone, there are other crazy gunsmiths out there I know two armatures, and two serious make a living at it smiths. Now the make a living at it smiths make what the customer wants, usually very ornate, but common types of guns.

We armatures are a totally different breed of cat, we love the unusual, the types you don’t see every day. In other words something not everybody has. Books on firearms history have lots of photos of prototypes to choose from. Well I had heard of Elmer and his museum of firearms for a couple of years. And he had heard from those visiting his museum, “Interesting but you don’t have a Flintlock Revolver, and I know someone who does.” We met and it could have gone either way, resentment or joy at finding a kindred sprit. He asked to take photos of my revolver, and I discussed problems it had. It’s not that reliable I made the pan covers too small, and it’s a lucky spark that hits the priming powder. Three months later we met again, and he had his revolver. It helps to own a machine shop, and summer is not his busy, “Farmer’s Season.” Spring and Fall he has no time to play at making guns. A year later he invited me to spend my vacation at his shop, and we would make a match lock musket I wanted at cost of materials. I learned a new way of making guns that I shall now describe.


Precussion Hall Carbine made by Elmer
1620 English Matchlock made by Elmer and me.

First select a nice flat photo of the prototype, I had such in one of my books of an English matchlock musket of about 1620. It had the length of the lock plate in its written description. We went to a store where they had an enlarging printer, measuring the length of the lock plate in the photo, divide the length from the written description by the length of the lock plate in the photo, multiply by 100 and you get the percent enlargement you need. It might take two or more enlargements to get the enlargement you need. Count the number of parts you need to make from photo and make that many copies. For a match lock it’s two the lock plate and the cock, a flintlock three the cock, lock plate, and frizzen or battery. For the Match/wheel-lock there were 2 cocks, the lock plate, pan cover, slide, safety lever, and the wheel cover.


Close up of a Match/Wheel-Lock

Elmer then pastes a cut out of each part on steel thick enough for the part, then cuts each part out on a metal cutting band saw after drilling all holes and some machining where a square piece is easier to mount in a four jaw chuck. With the machining done, and the part cut out comes the use of the “hand operated multi-toothed milling machine” Elmer’s term for a file. You round the part and remove any thing that doesn’t look like a gun part, and decorative piercings etc. The cock is made of spring steel, and has a long slot cut in the jaws with the band saw, it is tempered to hold open and the screw tightens the jaws on the match. The holes for the screws let you draw the internal parts those are them made as above. Make the screws, I like the Tudor rose heads I filed, and one smiley face for a lark. I did the filing Elmer did the machining of the work in the gun I would say 90% Elmer 10% mine although we spent forty hours in the shop together, but I was mostly a student at the feet of a master. Then make and fit springs, temper them, check functioning of the lock. Then caseharden, Elmer puts in some galvanized nails with Casenite to give the casehardening colors others claim you can’t get with Casenite.

Elmer next make the barrel from seamless extra heavy walled pipe, we used 12 gage 0.72 inch hole he gets in twenty foot length at two dollars a foot at the time. He cuts the barrel to lenguth, taps for the breach plug. He has a special breach plug with a round end to allow clamping to a milling table to machine the flats to the end of the barrel, and another plug with two diameters one fits the bore the other is larger for the muzzle Machine the first flat on the round barrel, use a forty-five degree triangle to clamp the barrel for the next flat on around. By the way want a swamped barrel put a shim half the size to take you down to the smallest flat where you want it and clamp the ends down flush, after machining four flats go to a shim the whole difference for the next four, Elmer is a sneaky devil ain’t he? As the matchlock had the first eight inches octagon and the rest round Elmer turned the round part town to the flat diameter as a rough, and clamped the small round part down to machine the octagon flats, but did not use the round muzzle plug on the matchlock barrel. He used a shim that allowed a bit to taper in the octagon part the octagon is slightly larger at the breach.

The matchlock has about eight inches of octagon and the rest turned round with a swamp taper done on a lathe. First clamp the octagon in the four jaw chuck, and live center the muzzle. Set the tapers using the adjustments in the tail stock, turn, and freehand the wedding ring where the round meats the octagon. Make the little tabs that allow you to pin the barrel to the stock, weld or silver solder them on. Make the pan, the pan of a matchlock is attached to the barrel not the lock plate and weld or silver solder it on. The pan cover is made in two pieces, a turned handle, milled with a taper that is welded to a flat piece then filed smooth looks like it was forged in one piece like the prototype. Turn the fancy cover screw, and drill and tap the pan cover. Make breach plug and tail solder or weld together.

Now comes the stock, draw the outline on wood, but before while it’s still square mill out the barrel channel and refine the fit with tools and bedding compound, use thin rubber coating so you don’t glue the barrel in the channel mind. And make holes for the tabs in the bottom of the channel. Remove the barrel and cut out outline of stock, mill the ramrod channel, drill the fore-stock where the ramrod enters the fore stock. Now take the square stock to the belt sander. Elmer’s has a plate for square sanding, and a large unsupported part to sand rounded parts of the stock. Make and install ramrod tubes on the fore-stock where the ramrod channel is, there are two in the matchlock. Elmer has a special die he uses to form them in a vice in no time. Make the sheet iron but plate and nail on, square the nail heads using a grinder they used square headed nails in the 1600s. Emery the barrel, brown, and attach by drilling holes through the stock and tabs and pin the stock in. Mine has a natural maple with clear finish, but some were black, get shoe polish if you want a black stock. Inlet the lock and make the hole in bottom of stock where tiller will go in the stock. Drill holes for lock screws. Turn and fit the tiller to the lock. Test fire to see where bullets are going, remove barrel and rap barrel on log until it shoot straight. You now have a matchlock.

Jute macramé braided or braided cotton rope (hard to find now days) makes a good match when soaked in saltpeter solution. If you get too much saltpeter in it beat on wood to remove some. You know you have too much if it burns like quick fuse it should just smolder. Remember to blow the match out of the jaws, and keep pan cover closed if you blow a little just prior to shooting or you will lose half your beard! That’s how Elmer and me made my matchlock, cost of materials, $60.00.

The next year we made the match/wheel lock hand mortar, and the following year I bought one of Elmer's Hall breach loading percussion carbines. Now only memories and a few photos and plans for I had to sell all my guns except one shotgun. It's to depressing a story, but I learned to hate the Government from it. Life is sometimes a hard teacher. Well even the scum in the Government can't take a man's fond memories.

Daryl wrote:Something that occurred to me was that it would be interesting to accurately count those who have died from gun massacres and those who have died from sharp financial practices. I know personally of people who have either committed suicide or died from illness aggravated by stress after losing their life savings.
The nutter shooters have either taken their own lives or are being fed by the state for many years, but the hedge fund or futures investors are living in luxury without a care. I bet that the smarties in their three piece suits and Mercedes have actually caused many more premature deaths and misery than the rednecks with an assault weapon.

Donnachaidh wrote:By video crazed do you mean plays video games? Are you among those who claim violent video games causes people to be violent?

Academic view:
Article by Dr. Christopher J. Ferguson, Associate professor of Psychology and department charis of psychology and communication, Texas A&M Univserisy

Fairly blunt but to the point:
Ctrl+Alt+Del Comic from 10/12/2005, specifically the last panel (lower-right)

[quote="pokermind"...the young video crazed adolescents don't.

Poker