Guns, Guns Guns

gcomeau wrote:
No, they won't be different. Some people will violate them. A lot won't. And the overall effect will be a lot less dead people. Not none, but a lot less.

Just. Like. With. Cars.

thinkstoomuch wrote:

gcomeau wrote:
No, they won't be different. Some people will violate them. A lot won't. And the overall effect will be a lot less dead people. Not none, but a lot less.

Just. Like. With. Cars.

Which of course this will follow.

Not. Like. With. Drugs.

Not. Like. With. Alcohol.

Of course this is where you fail to understand the difference between a law that the majority wants and the majority doesn't want. Look at recent polling data.

You remind very much of the old saying from Louis L'Amore, in "Hondo". "It is good to be sure."

Thing is I am not sure about much. Normally when I am sure I normally dreadful wrong and fail to understand stuff.

Enjoy,
T2M

Spacekiwi wrote:Kind of a false comparison though T2M. alcohol, weed, lSD, these can be made at home, cheaply, with store bought ingredients. the supply is easy. Guns require more sophisticated manufacturing, so all else the same, a given law would be more effective at moderating gun supply. CNC machines are harder to hide or get as compared to some grapes, yeast and seeds....

thinkstoomuch wrote:
Well if we are going to follow this silly line of thought (did I mention I really hate the car/gun comparison, for a lot of reasons).

3D printing or take a look at what it took to make a liberty gun. Same really applies Home Depot is your friend.

For that matter take a look at how the alcohol made in Canada made it into the the US in the twenties. Or anywhere else. I'm sure there is someone similar to the Kennedy's willing to provide a means and of course profit from it.

And as you yourself have pointed out, how much of Mexico's problems are caused by the market for drugs in the US? Central America? Afghanistan? If it was easy and not a problem then those folks wouldn't have those profits. So I am not seeing the "homebrew" as an issue.

Did you ever try to grow weed? Sounds like not. Growing anything in anything like reasonable personal quantities is not for the faint of heart. Well beyond the scope of the "typical" drug user or a prohibition era drinker, IMO.

Have fun,
T2M

PS One benefit of my travels around the US is you get to see what those folks running stills (and still are) had to do then and now. And it was cool to visit Buford T.'s house, "Walking Tall" for those who don't know. Or what it really takes to set up a rifling bench if you want to and have the time. Thank you to a Mount Airy, NC Museum.

Daryl wrote:The actual growing of weed is easy. I've known a few dopey (sorry) people that grew it over the years. It is about as hard as tomatoes to grow. The trick is to not get caught.

I do agree concerning laws that a significant percentage of the population don't agree with are unworkable. As in the old military adage of don't give an order that you know will be disobeyed.

The US gun "problem" will probably only be fixed by societal change over much time. When most of the population don't want casual personal gun ownership (without a valid reason) it will become politically feasible.

thinkstoomuch wrote:
Don't disagree with the growing thing. Been there done that. But how many people grow their own tomatoes in today's developed world or know how to . Dad's growing 250 tomato plants a year was the huge exception, well the whole 1+ acre garden (40 years ago). (I would submit that this forum is not the place to find average, heck most people can't even be bothered to read anymore--different rant)

Thing is most of the US citizens don't think the US has gun "problem". I don't. And I don't even own one. Or want one.

We have a huge number of other problems. I was flabbergasted that cities in Iowa are not letting their kids go snow sledding on public city land. That is a problem. The reason oh yeah need to protect from lawsuits for ...

If we still had that National Mental Health system we had when I was growing up probably wouldn't have as many mass shootings either.

For spacewiki. You miss the point it is just as easy to make a gun, maybe not as pretty or as good, as it is to make bathtub rum or moonshine in the 20's(which was not as tasty or as good). Yet how did the Kennedy's get rich. How many are willing to put the personal effort into making or growing their own drugs. Much easier apparently to let other people to dodge the law at the border or whatever.

Enjoy,
T2M

Spacekiwi wrote:

Also, not sure if you noticed the name is kiwi, like the bird, not like the website. just helps represent where Im from.

gcomeau wrote:What never fails to astound me about these discussions is the number of people who treat it like it's a purely theoretical exercise. Well we have no idea what will happen if we do this so we have to make up all these premises and assumptions and model everything and try to figure it out...


But it's not a theoretical exercise. It's been done. Over and over and over and over. For decades. Out in that place called "the rest of the world that isn't the US".

We have the test results already.




Data all falling along nice straight lines like that represent very clear and strong correlations.

And before anyone says "but that's GUN deaths. Of course gun deaths track gun ownership but imagine all those defenseless people in those disarmed countries being murdered by those other things because people who want to kill people can *always* find a way to..."

No.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2 ... 04-eng.gif

There is not some balancing out larger number of non-gun deaths in nations that don't have all those gun deaths so the homicide rates even out.

You'll notice the four countries with the overall highest rate of homicides are right up at the top of the list in gun homicides and gun ownership rates. They go together. The only large outliers are Switzerland and Mexico. Mexico is in the middle of a long term raging drug war so yeah, it has a high murder rate. and Switzerland has a low murder rate because as discussed earlier they pair that high rate of gun ownership with *universal* discipline and training requirements in mandatory militia duty.


So I agree, let's stop looking at cars or drugs or alcohol. We don't need to. We already have the fricking gun data. It's silly that this is even still a matter of debate at all.


As for the "but nobody thinks we have a gun problem in the US" angle. Yeah, and lots of Americans also think they have the best health care system in the word. That's an education problem that stems from the same root cause as I already hit at the top of this post. An astounding number of people in the US look at the world as if the US is the only thing in it that they need to concern themselves with and everything else is irrelevant.