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Hmm You want me to pay for what?

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Should the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) be:

1) Kept
3
9%
2) Fixed
13
41%
3) Repealed
15
47%
4) I'm brain dead with no opinion.
1
3%
 
Total votes : 32

Re: Hmm You want me to pay for what?
Post by Annachie   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:27 am

Annachie
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Posts: 3099
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thinkstoomuch wrote:
Annachie wrote:T2m, probably should have been.


Ok, I am not just keyboard challenged. :D

Also clarity.

I was actually referring to the "liberal" in the post by MAD-4A vice "Liberal".

To be honest I dislike both liberal;l and conservative as like your political party, those words rarely mean what the definition says in the dictionary.

Just another stereotype. Quick handle on concepts and labeling people, but are very slippery ...

Have a wonderful day,
T2M

The Australian Liberal party refers to it's classical liberalism roots, which politically are right wing. Center right actually. From there they have drifted further to the right and conservatism until now when they are basically Tea Party wannabe's. (Actually, that's just the Abbott government. It's hard to say how far right the average Autstralian Liberal supporter is. Not that far judging by the poll numbers but still) Whereas the American Democrats were a classical liberal party that drifted to the left and socialism back in the 1900's-1930's or so. (and would appear to be drifting further left, probably as a counter or consequence to the Republicans drift to the right)

In both cases, the descriptor "Liberal" is not exactly accurate anymore.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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still not dead. :)
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Re: Hmm You want me to pay for what?
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:29 pm

PeterZ
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Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

I wouldn't classify the American Democrat party which at its beginnings defined itself by asserting a State's authority to classify a group of human beings as slaves as having roots in classical liberalism. The only government they wanted limited was the federal government. They began with totalitarian tendencies and have only strengthened those tendencies over time.
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Re: Hmm You want me to pay for what?
Post by Annachie   » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:40 am

Annachie
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Posts: 3099
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 pm

That would be back when they were the Democratic Republican party,
They went Clasical Liberal when the party split into the Democrat party and the Whigs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: Hmm You want me to pay for what?
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:33 am

PeterZ
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Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

Annachie wrote:That would be back when they were the Democratic Republican party,
They went Clasical Liberal when the party split into the Democrat party and the Whigs.


Indeed they did. Yet, when the question of slavery came about, the classical liberals fled the party. Those that stayed would have had to either twist their classical liberal roots into knots or never had those roots at all. After the ACW the Democrat party became a tightly organized machine with an increasing tendency towards advocating greater power for the federal government. One might argue that the philosophical ancestors of the Democrat Party of today were those Andrew Jackson democrats that most weakly believed in the classical liberal core of the early Democrat Party ideals.

How else can anyone justify government denying human beings the liberty that is the core of Classic Liberalism? Those pro-slavery democrats could not have believed in liberty. If they did not believe in liberty, they could not have been classical liberals or in modern parlance, Classic Liberals in Name Only. That point of view is not that different from American Liberals today. The goals may change, but the means or using government to deny liberty has not.
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Re: Hmm You want me to pay for what?
Post by DDHvi   » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:30 pm

DDHvi
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:16 pm

Worth reading if you can stand the prolixity of that time.

http://www.constitution.org/jt/cccv.htm

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd
ddhviste@drtel.net

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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