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Broadsheets and Subversion

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by alj_sf   » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:14 pm

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d-eye wrote:
Owlish wrote: but the idea that this can be done on a somewhat regular basis (is it once a five-day per major city? twice? daily?) and not eventually be noticed while in progress is just a bit too much for me. What might I be missing?


The dark of night in a town with no decent lighting and the majority of people asleep.


Not the majority. Almost every ones but guards, because lighting with oil lamps is both costly and of bad quality.

The only common exception may be the docks where sailors live by the tide, but everyone else will be up from Dawn to dusk and stay inside at night.

Now, if gas lighting happens in Tellesberg (byproduct of coke production) this may change soon.
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by Caliban   » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:29 pm

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d-eye wrote:
Owlish wrote: but the idea that this can be done on a somewhat regular basis (is it once a five-day per major city? twice? daily?) and not eventually be noticed while in progress is just a bit too much for me. What might I be missing?


The dark of night in a town with no decent lighting and the majority of people asleep.


And Owlish, we're talking about small platforms, here, along with nanotech. Paper might be an issue as it's fairly macro, but ink? not a problem.

nor would glue.

Post a half dozen units or so as lookouts while the four are doing the glue up, then split.

This having been said, you are right about the impact that directed statements would have, but that's probably for a bit later.The effect in Harchong, in particular, will be devastating I would tend to think.
====================================


"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; A Fool speaks because he has to say something."
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by Randomiser   » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:24 pm

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Ahem!!

'The hefty store of SNARCs were also going to be incredibly useful. The stealthy little fusion powered spies were only very slightly larger than Nimue herself, but they had decent AI capability, were capable of speeds of up to Mach 2 in atmosphere ... and could deploy recoverable, almost microscopic-sized remotes of their own' (OAR P77 p/b, my emphasis)

Little is obviously a relative term. The SNARCs employ the same stealth technology which lets Merlin sneak past people so successfully in the semi-dark and are clearly large enough to carry a box of posters with them and hide those too. I don't think how they fly is ever discussed. I suspect the TF had counter-grav or some such.
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by n7axw   » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:48 pm

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Owlish wrote:Now I'll freely admit that runsforcelery (aka MWW and several other noms de plume) has had me easily suspend disbelief for many of his various strategies and tactics, but the posting of broadsheets that look anything like the work of a printer by one (or even several) small stealthy devices that are flight-capable without eventual detection is stretching it just a bit, even for my favorite author.

So we have say 4 of these devices (aka SNARKs) create this broadsheet, then they work together to fly themselves, with the broadsheet rolled up, to a suitable location. Two then afix the upper corners to a suitable building, then release the lower corners for the other 2 to afix below. The creation and the posting I can accept; it's the transportation that I get choked up over. Also, unless the SNARKs can make the paper/ink, there are more transportation issue (yes, they could break into a printer's shop and steal the paper/ink, but the stuff still needs to be transported).

I do see the potential here for a nice humorous interlude, where a citizen (perhaps a bit in his/her cups at a late/early hour) observes a broadsheet en route to its' installation - s/he sees a rolled-up sheet of paper flying thru the air with no visible means of support and proceeds to give up drink (at least for the rest of the five-day). But I do think this is a significant potential breech of security; these events _will_ eventually be seen and reported by someone of sufficient stature to be listened to. Obviously, the CoGA will declare that this is certainly the work of devils.

What might the odds be? Say there's a 99.5% chance that the process goes unnoticed. By the 140th post, the odds are 50% that it has been noticed. By the 460th, there's a 90% probability that it has been noticed.

Not that there's a huge downside here; tbh, having the broadsheets declared a Demonic Creation might not have a totally bad impact overall (the lure of the forbidden being a strong human reaction), but the idea that this can be done on a somewhat regular basis (is it once a five-day per major city? twice? daily?) and not eventually be noticed while in progress is just a bit too much for me. What might I be missing?


Owl can check and see of the coast is clear before any of the posting in an area happens.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by dwileye13   » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:31 pm

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SPOILER


alj_sf wrote:
SNIP

Now, if gas lighting happens in Tellesberg (byproduct of coke production) this may change soon.


In Tellesberg, The docks have gas lights as of HFQ
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by InvisibleBison   » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:37 pm

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People seem to be forgetting a probably relevant bit of tech the Terran Federation had - the ability to make things completely invisible! There are numerous references to this, mainly when Merlin is thinking about his recon skimmer's stealth systems, but we also see him use a man-portable device to sneak Cayleb out of his tent to go visit Sharleyan after the attack at St. Agtha's. Presumably SNARCs have something similar built into them, and it's not too implausible that they could extend the "invisibility field" or whatever it's called to the posters as they're putting them up. Combined with basic reconnaissance, and it seems completely reasonable that no one would ever see the broadsheets going up.

Also, there's no schedule for these things, so if Owl isn't able to put some up when and where he had intended for some reason, no one is going to miss them.
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by EdThomas   » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:55 pm

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Can you see a cartoon series of Owl's Poster putter upper crew. ROFL :lol: :lol:
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:12 am

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Hi Owlish,

Welcome to the forums, enjoy your favorite cg beverage on the cg forum. ;)

First, the comments regarding the SNARC micro sensors using stealth or their small size and avoiding any human and pet animal observation etc are quite correct.

Secondly, from the detail that went into Dailydd Mab's camp, I don't think the broadsheet placement operation is in jeopardy.

I suspect the paper is quite similar to whatever the local product is, though made by OWL, and delivered and stored near the target cities, towns, and villages, so the micro sensor sprays the glue on one side, fixes it to whatever wall, then uses a inkjet etc to squirt out the night's message while watch is kept by others to ensure its not disturbed.

Certainly the printing style of the inkjet would make it impossible to trace to any local press, and so far we have no indication the sensors have taken a page from Eric Frank Russel's Wasp, where the stickers etch the glass they're stuck on when they try to use water etc to get them off.

Having some future message on Clyntahn's infidelities and crimes etc etched into wood or brick might be amusing especially if it were the local church. 8-)

Doing it ten thousand times in a single night across the temple lands, Harchong, the BS and Dohlar, would be even funnier. :lol:

L


Owlish wrote:Now I'll freely admit that runsforcelery (aka MWW and several other noms de plume) has had me easily suspend disbelief for many of his various strategies and tactics, but the posting of broadsheets that look anything like the work of a printer by one (or even several) small stealthy devices that are flight-capable without eventual detection is stretching it just a bit, even for my favorite author.

So we have say 4 of these devices (aka SNARKs) create this broadsheet, then they work together to fly themselves, with the broadsheet rolled up, to a suitable location. Two then afix the upper corners to a suitable building, then release the lower corners for the other 2 to afix below. The creation and the posting I can accept; it's the transportation that I get choked up over. Also, unless the SNARKs can make the paper/ink, there are more transportation issue (yes, they could break into a printer's shop and steal the paper/ink, but the stuff still needs to be transported).

I do see the potential here for a nice humorous interlude, where a citizen (perhaps a bit in his/her cups at a late/early hour) observes a broadsheet en route to its' installation - s/he sees a rolled-up sheet of paper flying thru the air with no visible means of support and proceeds to give up drink (at least for the rest of the five-day). But I do think this is a significant potential breech of security; these events _will_ eventually be seen and reported by someone of sufficient stature to be listened to. Obviously, the CoGA will declare that this is certainly the work of devils.

What might the odds be? Say there's a 99.5% chance that the process goes unnoticed. By the 140th post, the odds are 50% that it has been noticed. By the 460th, there's a 90% probability that it has been noticed.

Not that there's a huge downside here; tbh, having the broadsheets declared a Demonic Creation might not have a totally bad impact overall (the lure of the forbidden being a strong human reaction), but the idea that this can be done on a somewhat regular basis (is it once a five-day per major city? twice? daily?) and not eventually be noticed while in progress is just a bit too much for me. What might I be missing?
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by walt   » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:11 am

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lyonheart wrote:Hi Owlish,

Welcome to the forums, enjoy your favorite cg beverage on the cg forum. ;)

First, the comments regarding the SNARC micro sensors using stealth or their small size and avoiding any human and pet animal observation etc are quite correct.

Secondly, from the detail that went into Dailydd Mab's camp, I don't think the broadsheet placement operation is in jeopardy.

I suspect the paper is quite similar to whatever the local product is, though made by OWL, and delivered and stored near the target cities, towns, and villages, so the micro sensor sprays the glue on one side, fixes it to whatever wall, then uses a inkjet etc to squirt out the night's message while watch is kept by others to ensure its not disturbed.

Certainly the printing style of the inkjet would make it impossible to trace to any local press, and so far we have no indication the sensors have taken a page from Eric Frank Russel's Wasp, where the stickers etch the glass they're stuck on when they try to use water etc to get them off.

Having some future message on Clyntahn's infidelities and crimes etc etched into wood or brick might be amusing especially if it were the local church. 8-)

Doing it ten thousand times in a single night across the temple lands, Harchong, the BS and Dohlar, would be even funnier. :lol:

L


Owlish wrote:Now I'll freely admit that runsforcelery (aka MWW and several other noms de plume) has had me easily suspend disbelief for many of his various strategies and tactics, but the posting of broadsheets that look anything like the work of a printer by one (or even several) small stealthy devices that are flight-capable without eventual detection is stretching it just a bit, even for my favorite author.

So we have say 4 of these devices (aka SNARKs) create this broadsheet, then they work together to fly themselves, with the broadsheet rolled up, to a suitable location. Two then afix the upper corners to a suitable building, then release the lower corners for the other 2 to afix below. The creation and the posting I can accept; it's the transportation that I get choked up over. Also, unless the SNARKs can make the paper/ink, there are more transportation issue (yes, they could break into a printer's shop and steal the paper/ink, but the stuff still needs to be transported).

I do see the potential here for a nice humorous interlude, where a citizen (perhaps a bit in his/her cups at a late/early hour) observes a broadsheet en route to its' installation - s/he sees a rolled-up sheet of paper flying thru the air with no visible means of support and proceeds to give up drink (at least for the rest of the five-day). But I do think this is a significant potential breech of security; these events _will_ eventually be seen and reported by someone of sufficient stature to be listened to. Obviously, the CoGA will declare that this is certainly the work of devils.

What might the odds be? Say there's a 99.5% chance that the process goes unnoticed. By the 140th post, the odds are 50% that it has been noticed. By the 460th, there's a 90% probability that it has been noticed.

Not that there's a huge downside here; tbh, having the broadsheets declared a Demonic Creation might not have a totally bad impact overall (the lure of the forbidden being a strong human reaction), but the idea that this can be done on a somewhat regular basis (is it once a five-day per major city? twice? daily?) and not eventually be noticed while in progress is just a bit too much for me. What might I be missing?


The idea of casualty lists etched into church doors fascinates me. This might make potential recruits think twice. At first, things like that are memorials, but take on a different spin as the list grows. And, of course, all those names in one place. Although I would localize the lists.
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Re: Broadsheets and Subversion
Post by XofDallas   » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:57 pm

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A couple of things on my "wouldn't it be nice" list for scenes in future books in the series:

1. A tavern discussion involving, or having as its subject, the soldier who identified the priest trying to get Irys killed, and who knew what really happened, and not the official CoGA version;

2. A scene involving the prisoners taken by Charis during the Siddarmarkian campaign, highlighting that they were far better treated than they had expected;

3. A tavern discussion somewhere in CoGA-controlled territory, involving the various Broadsheets posted. Those Broadsheets might have as a subject matter;

a. Mab's letter to Clyntahn, and the reasons for it;
b. What happened to Irys (and Hektor);
c. Outlining Harless' defeat;
d. Releasing info collected by Aivah and her Order, damaging or embarrassing to the CoGA.

We do see all sorts of discussions among leaders, and among the military, but not much else.

Like I said, this is a bit of a dream, and I don't think it will happen, as it's not RFC's style. It's a nice dream, though...
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