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Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)

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Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by Charybdis   » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:11 pm

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OK we know that the war with the Mother Church is likely to end with the next book. We have a thread on WHO is likely to kill our major villain, the Grand Fornicator ... err Inquisitor Clyntahn. But what I am looking for is the final scenes for the major personas prior to a nice Epilogue that leads to the next Safehold Arc where we confront the 'RETURN' of ?

I am going to start with the Vicar Clyntahn ... :twisted:

Bearing in mind that our Author is a FAN of Heinlein and RAH is on record about being a successful writer includes filing-off the serial numbers of prior successful authors! :roll:

So imagine Clyntahn as Shakespeare's Richard III on Bosworth Field, stranded, alone and no-one around to help him when he is in extremis! To wit, The Temple is Bosworth Field with the victorious allies there or approaching. Clyntahn suddenly finds his staff and everyone else paying no attention to him, the Vicar who has controlled EVERYTHING! Suddenly everyone is saving themselves and has no time for him or his orders. His world, his control has collapsed and he is ALONE, even Rayno (if still alive - debatable) ignores him.

Like an episode of Twilight Zone, he runs through the Temple trying to find an escape but there is none. Now he fears all of the enemies he has made WITHIN the Temple and feels everyone's hand turning against him. Suddenly Major Phandy's appears and treats with him courteously. He offers Clyntahn an out, a pain-free drug death that he happens to have on him. What Clyntahn does not know is that it is not death but the same cold-sleep drug Merlin used via remote on the Mahlard family at Camp Chihiro.

He awakes to face the court of no appeal - ...
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by n7axw   » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:04 pm

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I liked Nynian's fantasy of dancing in Clyntaahn's blood after Cayleb and Sharleyan detach his head.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by Charybdis   » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:43 pm

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n7axw wrote:I liked Nynian's fantasy of dancing in Clyntaahn's blood after Cayleb and Sharleyan detach his head.

Don

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Possible to have both ... :lol:
Merry Christmas! :D
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by Henry Brown   » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:16 pm

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Clyntahn doesn't seem to have a very healthy lifestyle as far as diet and things like that. And there have been multiple scenes where he is reduced to incoherent rage. What if those are foreshadowing and he dies of something like a massive heart attack, stroke, or aneurysm?
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by n7axw   » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:24 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:Clyntahn doesn't seem to have a very healthy lifestyle as far as diet and things like that. And there have been multiple scenes where he is reduced to incoherent rage. What if those are foreshadowing and he dies of something like a massive heart attack, stroke, or aneurysm?


It could happen in which csse his accountability would be to God which would probably disappoint Charis and Siddarmark both of whom are both looking forward to their pound of flesh...

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by Silverwall   » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:34 am

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Henry Brown wrote:Clyntahn doesn't seem to have a very healthy lifestyle as far as diet and things like that. And there have been multiple scenes where he is reduced to incoherent rage. What if those are foreshadowing and he dies of something like a massive heart attack, stroke, or aneurysm?


While this would deny various people the chance to get petty (or greater) revenge, in the cold light of day it would be better for the charisians et al to be able to point at gods retribution on the grand fornicator and be able to strike an accomodation with the remaining forces. Merlin should know better than to leave them in a treaty of Versailles situation and I don't think safehold is ready for Nuremburg trials. This is especially the case in a schimatic war between the established church and the schimatic faction.
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by Randomiser   » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:45 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:Clyntahn doesn't seem to have a very healthy lifestyle as far as diet and things like that. And there have been multiple scenes where he is reduced to incoherent rage. What if those are foreshadowing and he dies of something like a massive heart attack, stroke, or aneurysm?


It would be a tad too convenient from a literary point of view, don't you think? OTOH It's hard to see how one more book's worth of action gets us to the point of the war being over if it's just 'warfare as usual' for the next 600 pages. It seems like something seriously game-changing has to happen; the question is 'What?'
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by n7axw   » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:16 pm

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Randomiser wrote:
Henry Brown wrote:Clyntahn doesn't seem to have a very healthy lifestyle as far as diet and things like that. And there have been multiple scenes where he is reduced to incoherent rage. What if those are foreshadowing and he dies of something like a massive heart attack, stroke, or aneurysm?


It would be a tad too convenient from a literary point of view, don't you think? OTOH It's hard to see how one more book's worth of action gets us to the point of the war being over if it's just 'warfare as usual' for the next 600 pages. It seems like something seriously game-changing has to happen; the question is 'What?'


Yeah, at present pace of the plot, RFC needs 3 books to finish out the story arc, not just one... There has to be a 'What?' moment.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by TBird50   » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:03 pm

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That "what" moment could possibly be Duchairn & Magwair teaming up to overthrow Clytahn and suing for peace. Remember that after the bombing where all those vicars were killed, Magwair replaced those in his command structure taking a lot more care about who those people were loyal to, namely him rather than Clyntahn. He is in much better shape to try for a coup than before. I'm not sure he has enough soldiers close enough yet but maybe he will arrange for that to happen too.

OTOH, I'm not sure that a "peace" will suffice for Merlin's long range plans. He really needs to destroy the whole church structure in Zion. He needs to get rid of the Inquisition, and abolish the Proscriptions.

So I guess overall, I'm still leaning towards the EoC surrounding Zion, Clytahn tries to hide, EoC drags him out ala Saddam Hussein and puts him on trial with proof of all his atrocities etc, and hang him. Staynair takes over church in Zion, abolishing Inquistion and proscriptions and let the changing of the world begin.
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Re: Current Arc Ending Scenarios (Spoilers?)
Post by FreeTrav   » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:00 pm

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TBird50 wrote:So I guess overall, I'm still leaning towards the EoC surrounding Zion, Clytahn tries to hide, EoC drags him out ala Saddam Hussein and puts him on trial with proof of all his atrocities etc, and hang him. Staynair takes over church in Zion, abolishing Inquistion and proscriptions and let the changing of the world begin.

Staynair, even if the world would accept him as Grand Vicar, can't abolish the Proscriptions; doing so would mark him clearly - in the eyes of the entire world outside the Inner Circle - as the heretic that the CoGA (Clyntahn) claimed him to be.

I also question whether he could abolish the Inquisition; it does have a role to play in the Church, according to the Writ; at most, I could see him renouncing the Punishment of Schueler, or at least never actually sentencing anyone to it, and perhaps yanking back hard on the Inquisition's chain, to the point of limiting its authority and actions the same way as the Roman Catholic Church's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregat ... _the_Faith) has been limited.
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