Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

wastedfly wrote:Voltage, frequency, phase manipulation is absurdly simple. Been doing it since the early 1900's.

Yes, conversion is easy -- IF you plan for it.

The point is not that conversion might be necessary, it is that those who blithely suggest moving the equipment ignore the possible compatibility problems.

It doesn't do any good to know that you need a transformer without knowing how big the transformer needs to be -- plugging a 250 Watt microwave into a 15W transformer will release some magic smoke from your transformer. (or at least from the fuse)

The captured Ships will have schematics and such so that appropriate facilities can be prepared, but design and construction take time; time during which the equipment can be used in place so the construction crews don't have to do a rush job and/or the equipment won't have to be moved twice.

Potato wrote:

doug941 wrote:1) Several posters have downchecked cutting through armor to get to equipment. Broadside, bow and stern are armored, tops and bottoms of hulls not so much. Can anyone say wedge?

Which still took months to do in a yard which had all the necessary equipment. No one in the Alliance is going to throw a huge monkey wrench into their support structure by trying to process the SLN's SDs.

I assume you're talking about Honor's BC HMS Nike in SVW.

Your point is further strengthened because, unlike a BC, wallers have a secondary armored core, and even the dorsal and ventral surfaces of that inner armored hull are going to carry some amount of additional armor. So not only is all the armor much thicker than on a BC there is also significant armor in additional locations than in a BC.

Weird Harold wrote:

wastedfly wrote:Voltage, frequency, phase manipulation is absurdly simple. Been doing it since the early 1900's.

It doesn't do any good to know that you need a transformer without knowing how big the transformer needs to be -- plugging a 250 Watt microwave into a 15W transformer will release some magic smoke from your transformer. (or at least from the fuse)

So you plug a multimeter in to get the Vthevenin and Rthevenin. Add in some resistors between the terminals and boom, you've got the wattage. Takes less than a minute. This is the easiest thing in the world, even if the Wattage isn't printed on the item like we do today for exactly this reason.

keylime314 wrote:So you plug a multimeter in to get the Vthevenin and Rthevenin. Add in some resistors between the terminals and boom, you've got the wattage. Takes less than a minute. This is the easiest thing in the world, even if the Wattage isn't printed on the item like we do today for exactly this reason.

Which pins do you test on that plug?



How about this one?

Do you have the right connectors, do you know which pins carry what signals to which other components. does the Med bay have dedicated memory or does it disperse info across the entire ship's database?

You don't know the answers, nor do I. I at least admit there is a lot that I don't know about transferring the equipment ground-side in operable condition.

Weird Harold wrote:

wastedfly wrote:Voltage, frequency, phase manipulation is absurdly simple. Been doing it since the early 1900's.

Yes, conversion is easy -- IF you plan for it.

The point is not that conversion might be necessary, it is that those who blithely suggest moving the equipment ignore the possible compatibility problems.

It doesn't do any good to know that you need a transformer without knowing how big the transformer needs to be -- plugging a 250 Watt microwave into a 15W transformer will release some magic smoke from your transformer. (or at least from the fuse)

The captured Ships will have schematics and such so that appropriate facilities can be prepared, but design and construction take time; time during which the equipment can be used in place so the construction crews don't have to do a rush job and/or the equipment won't have to be moved twice.

I'm sorry to tell you this: Nobody uses transformers in electronic equipment today. It's all primary switched PSU's, much less copper used. In 1000+ years I'd guess compact solid state AC/AC, DC/DC, AC/DC, DC/AC converters will be ubiquitous, nobody will really care what kind voltage system someone uses, just that it can handle the load.

This kind of stuff is COTS, even military grade stuff.

And figuring out what pins carries what is a no-brainer, you got the full spec on all the equipment in the databanks. It was one the points you repeatedly brought up earlier.

Joat42 wrote:And figuring out what pins carries what is a no-brainer, you got the full spec on all the equipment in the databanks. It was one the points you repeatedly brought up earlier.

Yep, but it's a point that the "strip everything out and send it down" advocates seem to ignore.

The equipment can -- and eventually will -- be moved ground-side. I've argued that would NOT be the best first step; the specifications and manuals are available, but making use of that information isn't magic would require time, in addition to constructing suitable facilities which also isn't magic.

Weird Harold wrote:

Joat42 wrote:And figuring out what pins carries what is a no-brainer, you got the full spec on all the equipment in the databanks. It was one the points you repeatedly brought up earlier.

Yep, but it's a point that the "strip everything out and send it down" advocates seem to ignore.

The equipment can -- and eventually will -- be moved ground-side. I've argued that would NOT be the best first step; the specifications and manuals are available, but making use of that information isn't magic would require time, in addition to constructing suitable facilities which also isn't magic.

Because it is a trivial problem! The people who are going to strip it down know what they are doing. They are not some dumb neobarb who hasn't seen a lightbulb. The people who are installing the equipment groundside would also be competent enough to do the job.

Or are you going to keep on suggesting that the Empire of Manticore is run by idiots who are just going to send the equipment without thinking about whether the receiving end of the largesse will be able to put them into service or not.

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It is really funny that you are saying the people downside would be too dumb to install the equipment but they woiuld be at the level that they can be trained for shipboard and space technology... lol!

doug941 wrote:1) Several posters have downchecked cutting through armor to get to equipment. Broadside, bow and stern are armored, tops and bottoms of hulls not so much. Can anyone say wedge?



Which still took months to do in a yard which had all the necessary equipment. No one in the Alliance is going to throw a huge monkey wrench into their support structure by trying to process the SLN's SDs.

Valid points as far as they go. Remember between Spindle and 2nd Manticore 56 BCs and 12 CAs were captured. They could be reclaimed relatively easily. As to where, if I remember correctly pre-Icarius Basilisk was said to have reclamation slips and has has 9 years to be rebuilt.


2) If Maya wanted some of the ships, one relatively cheap way to turn them into a half-assed podlayer. Andy-style hull pods.



Except two Mount Everest sized points against it are:

1. Maya does not want the public exposure of having SDs they're not supposed to have, and

2. Maya already has much more effective ships on the way, which they can actually man out of their covert pool of recruits.

Again, valid as far as they go. Since the Frontier Fleet detachment has DDs and CLs, that's what they would want.
Spindle and 2nd Manticore scores were 48 DDs and 53 CLs. Tweak the emission signatures and use false transponder codes would hide true ID quite a bit. As to to training, two points. Solly crews, Solly ships. And how M class star systems are there within 20 light years of Smoking Frog? "On the way" also has several problems. What happens if a SLN task force shows up at Erewhon? Deliveries STOP. What happens if Battle/Frontier Fleet comes calling before the new Maya Navy is up and running? Of course new and improved is better than junk, but junk is here now.

Valid points as far as they go. Remember between Spindle and 2nd Manticore 56 BCs and 12 CAs were captured. They could be reclaimed relatively easily. As to where, if I remember correctly pre-Icarius Basilisk was said to have reclamation slips and has has 9 years to be rebuilt.

Again, it is still months of work. Months of time where instead of working to keep their own ships operational, they are working on useless junk.

Again, valid as far as they go. Since the Frontier Fleet detachment has DDs and CLs, that's what they would want.

That misses the point. Rozsak rejected taking in the State Sec ships captured at the Battle of Torch because he did not want to have any untoward recognition or publicity of having those in his service. Rozsak has thus far managed to disguise his naval expansion as a very small training and support mission to Erewhon. His spacers are ones hidden in plain sight by having them officially "loaned" to Erewhon. Taking on manpower expensive vessels would shred that disguise completely, which is why he did not want the PNE ships, and is also why he does not want any SLN ships.

Spindle and 2nd Manticore scores were 48 DDs and 53 CLs. Tweak the emission signatures and use false transponder codes would hide true ID quite a bit. As to to training, two points. Solly crews, Solly ships. And how M class star systems are there within 20 light years of Smoking Frog? "On the way" also has several problems. What happens if a SLN task force shows up at Erewhon? Deliveries STOP. What happens if Battle/Frontier Fleet comes calling before the new Maya Navy is up and running? Of course new and improved is better than junk, but junk is here now.

The origin of the ships is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Rozsak cannot disguise such a massive naval expansion. Taking on those ships would require tens of thousands of personnel he simply does not have.

As for what the SLN does or does not do before the ships are ready, I point you to Cauldron of Ghosts. Rozsak (and Erewhon) already has a force which can stop any likely intervention from the SLN. Any unlikely worst case scenario has him calling for backup from the Alliance. It also helps that the Maya sector is still playing at being the nice, loyal OFS protectorate it has always been, so they are not likely to get an unfriendly visit from a Battle Fleet task force any time soon.

doug941 wrote:What happens if a SLN task force shows up at Erewhon? Deliveries STOP. What happens if Battle/Frontier Fleet comes calling before the new Maya Navy is up and running? Of course new and improved is better than junk, but junk is here now.

What would happen is the Erewhon Space Navy would blow the SLN task force out of space. They have home built ERMs that out range anything the Solies have, and if the Havenites or Manties haven't given them some MDM pods, than they are idiots. I know I would, considering that they are the closest member of the Haven Quadrent to the League.

If Battle/Frontier Fleet comes calling on Maya, then the Governor plays the part of Loyal Sector Governor to the hilt, and keeps his new navy hidden. Considering that the SL thinks they are ESN ships, they should be easy to keep out of view from Maya. It would be difficult to hide the number of people required to man the old, non automated ships that the SLN uses.

If the SL got curious, and desired to attack Maya, the ships would be nice to have and let's say they make them a hundred times more likely to defeat the attack. On the other hand having the ships makes an attack a thousand times more likely. Wouldn't it make sense to not have the ships?

[Added] Dang it, snipped by a potato. "I'm the clever one, you're the potato one."-The Doctor.