Guns, Guns Guns

Annachie wrote:The histories show that grazing rights, as an owned transferable comodity, was granted by the feds as a trade off for grazers dropping their stock numbers on public lands. I found no reference to state control of it before that event. (Except for trespass exceptions). Haven't read your article yet though.
One other piece of Australian history you might find interesting though.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting_(pastoral)

Oh, the US will never walk away from military alliance down here. Too many 'secret' based to relocate.

Bundy's grazing allotment was originally on land owned by the State of Nevada which transferred the land to the Federal government a few decades ago which set the stage for this dispute.

As the article that I posted a link to explains, the fact that grazing rights are a property right that can be bought and sold enables a peaceful resolution of these situations. Private groups and/or the government are at liberty to simply purchase the grazing rights from ranchers and then either eliminate or severely regulate grazing to achieve environmental objectives. In the Bundy case, the Chines company that allegedly intends to build a solar power plant on the property could buy Bundy out.

This situation really has less to do with land ownership and environmental regulation as American police seeking to assert their dominance over the people. You like to bitch about how violent Americans are but you ignore how violent American police are. The police in the US even obscure the number of fatalities resulting from their actions by classifying most shootings by police as suicides rather than homicides by police. (See DEADLY FORCE, WHATWE KNOW, by the Police Executives Research Forum) This trend is encouraged by manufacturers of police weaponry. Taser International has had a cadre of attorneys whose mission isto file lawsuits against any coroner who rules that a subject that is killed with a police taser didn't die from "excited delirium" or other such BS. The manufacturers of "bean bag" shotgun rounds also file lawsuits against coroners who rule that subjects that die from these "less lethal" projectiles penetrating their chest were merelyaccidents. Keep in mind that these less lethal weapons have a valid role but too many police use them as "pain compliance" weapons (aka
torture devices) in situations where there is no justification to use potentially lethal force. The "furtive motion" doctrine has become a license to kill.

If the citizens protesting at the Bundy ranch had not even armed, the Federal goons would have massacred them.


Final comment. Why would a neoisolationists President of the US wish to retain secret bases in Australia? The only purpose of such bases would be to protect Australia, not the US. There is value to having bases to enhance force projection capability. However; transitioning to an all
nuclear navy would be a more cost-effective strategy that would eliminate the perceived need to protect other countries.

Read "Imperial Hubris" by Mike Schuler. Given Obama's repudiation of the Bush Doctrine, the only viable strategy available to the US is isolationism. This strategy requires a determination to accept tens of millions of deaths in other countries with equalmity. In other words, the US declares open season on it's former allies.

Are you reading all the posts or are just selecting reading what you want to read. Notice, one post that my reasoning was if cherish these rights that I should apply these same beliefs to people outside my Country! My answer was "YES!"

Tenshinai wrote:

I have a hard time with a person from another country telling me as an American what we should do.

Why?

USA and it´s people tell everyone else what to do all the time, why should it be a one way street?

smr wrote: Notice, one post that my reasoning was if cherish these rights that I should apply these same beliefs to people outside my Country! My answer was "YES!"

Your nation in general doesn´t quite share your opinion. And even many folks that do share it(sort of, or claim to share it), do so by trying to "apply" those beliefs in very specific and selective ways outside your country by force because "obviously we know better".

I already have greater personal freedom here than your constitution provides, so why should i be happy about you oh so graciously extending it? It´s a deterioration for me.

Which means I have to allow views that go against my beliefs!

No, really? How terribly shocking!

"allowing" views that goes against your beliefs, that goes without saying, otherwise you end up at kindergarten level of thinking(at best). If you have to actually say it or consider it, there´s something wrong.

The same goes for "apply these same beliefs outside my country", if you even have to ask yourself if your going to allow a "level playground", there´s something wrong.

smr wrote:Are you reading all the posts or are just selecting reading what you want to read.

Hmm? Well if you must know, i usually read all. If there´s too many new posts or i dont have the time or energy i skim some, and sometimes i miss posts(especially annoying is the bug when you click on "first unread post" and it loads the next page instead of jumping -down- to unread posts on the same page).

Shocking I say it! Sweden donates how much GDP to other countries, sends how many of it people to act as world policeman (most US citizens wish we would not be fighting in the Middle East! We would rather be using solar, tidal, and wind power to generate energy! Let me ask you a question, who helped the Germans to invade Russia within WW2. That's right Sweden was officially neutral but allowed the Germans to use their railways to invade another Country. If a person is snarky too me...I can be snarky right back! What is the question or the comment about guns. I do believe that's the topic rather than trolls. (Yes, I included myself!)

Tenshinai wrote:

smr wrote: Notice, one post that my reasoning was if cherish these rights that I should apply these same beliefs to people outside my Country! My answer was "YES!"

Your nation in general doesn´t quite share your opinion. And even many folks that do share it(sort of, or claim to share it), do so by trying to "apply" those beliefs in very specific and selective ways outside your country by force because "obviously we know better".

I already have greater personal freedom here than your constitution provides, so why should i be happy about you oh so graciously extending it? It´s a deterioration for me.

Which means I have to allow views that go against my beliefs!

No, really? How terribly shocking!

"allowing" views that goes against your beliefs, that goes without saying, otherwise you end up at kindergarten level of thinking(at best). If you have to actually say it or consider it, there´s something wrong.

The same goes for "apply these same beliefs outside my country", if you even have to ask yourself if your going to allow a "level playground", there´s something wrong.

smr wrote:Are you reading all the posts or are just selecting reading what you want to read.

Hmm? Well if you must know, i usually read all. If there´s too many new posts or i dont have the time or energy i skim some, and sometimes i miss posts(especially annoying is the bug when you click on "first unread post" and it loads the next page instead of jumping -down- to unread posts on the same page).

smr wrote:Shocking I say it! Sweden donates how much GDP to other countries, sends how many of it people to act as world policeman (most US citizens wish we would not be fighting in the Middle East! We would rather be using solar, tidal, and wind power to generate energy! Let me ask you a question, who helped the Germans to invade Russia within WW2. That's right Sweden was officially neutral but allowed the Germans to use their railways to invade another Country.

As usual, people don´t bother to check reality, not that i´m very surprised in your case.

Sweden was breaking into German communications since 1940, and doing as close to absolute minimum as it could and not get invaded.

If you want to know WHO Sweden supported during WWII, you should take a close look at how our intelligence services worked.

Nothing was shared with the Germans that they didn´t know already, and usually not at all.
UK however normally got any information as fast as it could be delivered safely.

When Bismarck headed for the North Sea in 1940 and was spotted by a Swedish destroyer, that sighting was in the hands of the UK navy in less than 2 hours.

In comparison a similar information sharing going from USA to UK in 1942, usually took 20-40 hours. Even as late as 1944, it could take longer than 2 hours. And that´s between open allies cooperating closely.


The vast majority of transit traffic was to Norway, the majority of that traffic was food, and that was for the sake of Norway not suffering.

There was essentially one case where the Engelbrecht division was allowed transit to Finland in mid 1941(after the invasion of USSR). Under direct threat of invasion.

And every single train was under armed guard.

If a person is snarky too me...I can be snarky right back! What is the question or the comment about guns. I do believe that's the topic rather than trolls. (Yes, I included myself!)

If America had not intervened where would Europe not to mention Sweden be. Wait where the big bad Americans telling you what to do. I don't hear you saying seek Heil Obama...Yes we got stuck with a political idiot that someone believed was worth a Nobel Peace Prize and he had not finished his 1st year in office. With him running this country we would be Libya and Syria with ground troops but us evangelical Christians threatened to destroy his power bases so to speak. We did not want to go into Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, or Libya but we have a leader that is attempting to destroy the country one liberty at a time until were like Germany in the 30's. Well one way to guarantee that a tyrant never takes power is have a well regulated militia. The militia consists of every able body man and it states we must bring our own common weapons and ammunition. The sad fact is originally I voted for his hope and change...tactical mistake! His actions speak way louder than his words.

Tenshinai wrote:

smr wrote:Shocking I say it! Sweden donates how much GDP to other countries, sends how many of it people to act as world policeman (most US citizens wish we would not be fighting in the Middle East! We would rather be using solar, tidal, and wind power to generate energy! Let me ask you a question, who helped the Germans to invade Russia within WW2. That's right Sweden was officially neutral but allowed the Germans to use their railways to invade another Country.

As usual, people don´t bother to check reality, not that i´m very surprised in your case.

Sweden was breaking into German communications since 1940, and doing as close to absolute minimum as it could and not get invaded.

If you want to know WHO Sweden supported during WWII, you should take a close look at how our intelligence services worked.

Nothing was shared with the Germans that they didn´t know already, and usually not at all.
UK however normally got any information as fast as it could be delivered safely.

When Bismarck headed for the North Sea in 1940 and was spotted by a Swedish destroyer, that sighting was in the hands of the UK navy in less than 2 hours.

In comparison a similar information sharing going from USA to UK in 1942, usually took 20-40 hours. Even as late as 1944, it could take longer than 2 hours. And that´s between open allies cooperating closely.


The vast majority of transit traffic was to Norway, the majority of that traffic was food, and that was for the sake of Norway not suffering.

There was essentially one case where the Engelbrecht division was allowed transit to Finland in mid 1941(after the invasion of USSR). Under direct threat of invasion.

And every single train was under armed guard.

If a person is snarky too me...I can be snarky right back! What is the question or the comment about guns. I do believe that's the topic rather than trolls. (Yes, I included myself!)

smr wrote:Well one way to guarantee that a tyrant never takes power is have a well regulated militia.

What you call yourself doesn´t matter, the government or whoever is actually in power are going to call you illegal combatants, terrorists or something equally "nice".

And then they throw the regular military at you and you die.

And then of course, there´s the issue in regards to that what you believe may not have any connection to reality. And the fact that others are extremely unlikely to believe the same thing.

Which is why your precious militia will never work like you wish. That would only ever happen if there was a clear, comletely unambigious, outsider, nondomestic enemy with zero reasons to have any domestic support.


The funny thing is, that the only way your dream militia is going to work the way you want it to work, is if you have that "tyrant" in charge of the militia.

smr wrote:We did not want to go into Afghanistan, Iraq,

Really? That´s an interesting claim. And a complete lie. Why dont you go look at online forum archives? GWB had USA by the balls with his propaganda crap, and the majority of people in USA chose to believe even when it was obvious that it was lies.

smr wrote:but we have a leader that is attempting to destroy the country one liberty at a time until were like Germany in the 30's.

While i have nothing left over for Obama, it´s kinda strange(as in insane) how many in USA blame him for things GWB did.

Obama´s worst actions are his INactions, that he did not reverse all the crap created or ruled by GWB.
Well, that and helping to start a war in Ukraine...

smr wrote:If America had not intervened where would Europe not to mention Sweden be.

Careful, people might think you´re arrogant.

"Intervened" btw?

Tenshinai, I get that you hate America. In reality, I don't care. By the way, it's obvious that you clearly hate America. What happened in Iraq was wonderful snow job of the American people. They claimed they were weapons of mass destruction but their was only large chemical stockpile of chemical weapons. That taught us a very good lesson: demand hard evidence. Our current President tried the same tactic with Syria! I think it's time for Europe to shoulder their burden of their own security. America is returning to "Isolationism!"
It's better to let Europeans fight the Russians. That's what your asking for. Fine, your wish shall be granted. We don't have any desire to send our wealth and youth to fight wars overseas!

Tenshinai wrote:

smr wrote:Well one way to guarantee that a tyrant never takes power is have a well regulated militia.

What you call yourself doesn´t matter, the government or whoever is actually in power are going to call you illegal combatants, terrorists or something equally "nice".

And then they throw the regular military at you and you die.

And then of course, there´s the issue in regards to that what you believe may not have any connection to reality. And the fact that others are extremely unlikely to believe the same thing.

Which is why your precious militia will never work like you wish. That would only ever happen if there was a clear, comletely unambigious, outsider, nondomestic enemy with zero reasons to have any domestic support.


The funny thing is, that the only way your dream militia is going to work the way you want it to work, is if you have that "tyrant" in charge of the militia.

smr wrote:We did not want to go into Afghanistan, Iraq,

Really? That´s an interesting claim. And a complete lie. Why dont you go look at online forum archives? GWB had USA by the balls with his propaganda crap, and the majority of people in USA chose to believe even when it was obvious that it was lies.

smr wrote:but we have a leader that is attempting to destroy the country one liberty at a time until were like Germany in the 30's.

While i have nothing left over for Obama, it´s kinda strange(as in insane) how many in USA blame him for things GWB did.

Obama´s worst actions are his INactions, that he did not reverse all the crap created or ruled by GWB.
Well, that and helping to start a war in Ukraine...

smr wrote:If America had not intervened where would Europe not to mention Sweden be.

Careful, people might think you´re arrogant.

"Intervened" btw?

in·ter·vene
[in-ter-veen] Show IPA
verb (used without object), in·ter·vened, in·ter·ven·ing.
1.
to come between disputing people, groups, etc.; intercede; mediate.
2.
to occur or be between two things.
3.
to occur or happen between other events or periods: Nothing important intervened between the meetings.
4.
(of things) to occur incidentally so as to modify or hinder: We enjoyed the picnic until a thunderstorm intervened.
5.
to interfere with force or a threat of force: to intervene in the affairs of another country.


I believe I used the work correctly in past tense. Feel free to correct me because I am human and prone to errors.

smr wrote:in·ter·vene
[in-ter-veen] Show IPA
verb (used without object), in·ter·vened, in·ter·ven·ing.
1.
to come between disputing people, groups, etc.; intercede; mediate.
2.
to occur or be between two things.
3.
to occur or happen between other events or periods: Nothing important intervened between the meetings.
4.
(of things) to occur incidentally so as to modify or hinder: We enjoyed the picnic until a thunderstorm intervened.
5.
to interfere with force or a threat of force: to intervene in the affairs of another country.


I believe I used the work correctly in past tense. Feel free to correct me because I am human and prone to errors.

Yes you made errors, as the definition of "intervene" was never in question.
Your knowledge of history was.

Tenshinai, I get that you hate America. In reality, I don't care. By the way, it's obvious that you clearly hate America.

*beep* Wrong. Just shows how skewed your perception is.

What happened in Iraq was wonderful snow job of the American people. They claimed they were weapons of mass destruction but their was only large chemical stockpile of chemical weapons.

1. There was no "large... stockpile" there wasn´t even a small stockpile, there were some forgotten and scattered leftovers from the Iran-Iraq war and a few samples found with a single scientist of the more questionable sort.
Even if ALL chemical warheads found had still been useable, it might at worst be enough for a small massacre, but probably not even that.

2. Chemical weapons ARE weapons of mass destruction.

That taught us a very good lesson: demand hard evidence.

Me and thousands with me, managed to debunk USAs so called evidence given to the UN, within hours or at most days. Some of it was so freakin obviously fake that it´s pathetic. Even the poor guy doing the show and tell looked embarassed while doing it.

I think it's time for Europe to shoulder their burden of their own security.

Sure. Just remember that if USA drops it´s military influence, you can say bye-bye to all the goodies you get from that.
Say goodbye to the almighty petrodollar boy.
Say goodbye to the dollar as the reserve currency.

You think USA has problems now? When the above happens, expect the dollar to drop to 1/4 maybe 1/10th of its current value.

Because something you should keep in mind is that the US economy is being propped up by printing money drastically beyond realism, and once the supports for that are removed or even just weakened, what you´re looking at is hyperinflation of the extreme kind.

It's better to let Europeans fight the Russians.

Why ever should we fight them? It´s US meddling that has messed things up there in the first place.

The Russians just want fair treatment, like anyone else. Maybe you should take a look at the amazing little fact that despite all the propaganda warnings and scares, despite all the provocations, Russian gas deliveries to the rest of Europe have not been allowed to falter at all.

When Ukraine siphoned off >20% without paying for it, the Russians compensated, while taking the Ukrainians to court about the theft.

Meanwhile, the NSA is reading literally EVERYTHING that is online. And anyone interested in TOR or Tail, they automatically end up on the "terrorism watch list"...

USA is acting like a facist policestate against the rest of the world and you think i will just sit down and take it?

We don't have any desire to send our wealth and youth to fight wars overseas!

Can´t see beyond the tip of your nose.