Guns, Guns Guns

Tenshinai, I get that you hate America. In reality, I don't care. By the way, it's obvious that you clearly hate America.


*beep* Wrong. Just shows how skewed your perception is.

I haven't seen any signs to date that smr's perception is incorrect. So since you claim you don't hate the USA, what if anything do you LIKE about the USA.

Easy: the Constitution, my church, my community, my job

First, I am patriot of my country! Second, I have lived around the world and this government despite all it's flaws and warts is still one of the best around. Third, the right to worship God freely.

We did not find nuclear weapons but we did find chemical weapons. The chemical weapons were not the reason we went into Iraq.

Great that you "am patriot of my country", and I agree that there are many worse governments around. Freedom of religion is a very important right which should be defended, especially for those like me who aren't religious.
The chemical weapons found in Iraq were totally ineffective, and from memory would have fitted on a single truck.

Despite some opinions here to the contrary I don't hate America, or Americans myself. I do find understanding their values and paradigms difficult, and my participation in these debates is an attempt to inform myself. We too have a constitution which we value, but we regard it as a living document that should be reviewed and changed as necessary. In our society a public statement of personal religious fervour is regarded as being somewhat strange.

I do admit that I and many others regard some USA international policies with distaste. These would include the assumption that they can invade other sovereign countries, spy on their private citizens, dictate moral standards, expect US law to apply outside their homeland, and generally get their own way just because they carry the biggest stick.

On the original topic of guns, the international press delighted in printing some responses to Target's plea for their customers not to carry guns while shopping. Twitter responses showing enraged husbands being powerless to guarantee their family's safety if not carrying a gun while shopping in a department store didn't actually convince the world that US society was very sophisticated.

smr wrote:Easy: the Constitution, my church, my community, my job

First, I am patriot of my country! Second, I have lived around the world and this government despite all it's flaws and warts is still one of the best around. Third, the right to worship God freely.

We did not find nuclear weapons but we did find chemical weapons. The chemical weapons were not the reason we went into Iraq.

biochem wrote:
I haven't seen any signs to date that smr's perception is incorrect. So since you claim you don't hate the USA, what if anything do you LIKE about the USA.

You do realise that even if there was a complete absence of such, that still says nothing? Epic logic fail.

But for starters, there´s about 30-40 people there that i count as friends.

And even with all its highly annoying downsides, the US entertainment industry has still provided several of my favourites.

And that´s as far as i will say anything about it for now.


The real problem here is that people in USA assume that everyone else thinks as they do.

You don´t see my discussions in regard to my own nation, so when you see me not doing the usual obligatory cheerleader routine for USA, that automatically means hate...




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Easy: the Constitution, my church, my community, my job

3/4 of those are things that has no bearing on the nation(unless the job is somehow an integral part of the nation of course).

And maaan, if i went out and started talking about liking grundlagen(fundamental law/constitution) here, i´d probably get myself comitted to some padded room.
Obsessions are not healthy...

Personally the thing i like best about my own:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundlage ... _documents
In the 18th century, after over 40 years of mixed experiences with parliamentarism, public access to government documents was one of the main issues with the Freedom of the Press Act of 1766.



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On the original topic of guns, the international press delighted in printing some responses to Target's plea for their customers not to carry guns while shopping. Twitter responses showing enraged husbands being powerless to guarantee their family's safety if not carrying a gun while shopping in a department store didn't actually convince the world that US society was very sophisticated.

Or sane.

I do admit that I and many others regard some USA international policies with distaste. These would include the assumption that they can invade other sovereign countries, spy on their private citizens, dictate moral standards, expect US law to apply outside their homeland, and generally get their own way just because they carry the biggest stick.

Essentially, USA assumes that rules only apply to it if it wants to. Which means rule of law is totally crushed.
And rule of law is what makes modern society, a FREE society possible at all.

Which makes it so absurd that the land shouting more than all other nations together about freedom, is one of the biggest causes of freedoms lost.

The chemical weapons found in Iraq were totally ineffective, and from memory would have fitted on a single truck.

Yup. And most of them were warheads noone knew even still existed, "lost" during the 1st gulf war (Iraq-Iran).

We too have a constitution which we value, but we regard it as a living document that should be reviewed and changed as necessary.

When needed, change should happen.

In our society a public statement of personal religious fervour is regarded as being somewhat strange.

And again USA stands out in a negative way, freedom of religion is proclaimed, but if for example you look at how likely someone is to get a public office or a promotion, being christian is the way to go, being jewish is sometimes good enough, islamic varies from acceptable to "not a chance", other than that gets more random, while atheists or merely nonreligious people are effectively discriminated against.

...

Tenshinai, the American constitution can be changed by amendments, it is difficult needing a super majority in congress and the state legislatures. Never done but you can call a second constitutional convention and when passed must go for states for ratification, a super majority again. The idea is keeping the ground rules and bill of rights not subject to the passions of the moment.

Of course when inconvenient politicians like our current President simply ignore it

And again USA stands out in a negative way, freedom of religion is proclaimed, but if for example you look at how likely someone is to get a public office or a promotion, being christian is the way to go, being jewish is sometimes good enough, islamic varies from acceptable to "not a chance", other than that gets more random, while atheists or merely nonreligious people are effectively discriminated against.

Ugh, Islamic people have freedom to practice their religion, although 'Honor Killings' and other violent acts come under violation of our laws. Given our history, our first 'war' was against the north African pirates, the fact Muslims are not elected is no surprise, they can and do run for office that the public does not vote for them is just too bad Or as you might put it, "Det är synd." Well according to Google translate

Poker

Daryl, I do not have problem with someone trying to be informed and take part in the discussion. What I had a problem is obvious Anti-Americans trolling. I can respect people that want understand and discuss a topic. We can agree to disagree on topics that is part of discussion. What I had problem with is obvious trolling that taking place by Tenshinai. Notice that he refused to say he likes anything about America. He complains when the US acts and he complains when the US does not act in Ukraine. He complains that the public owns guns and turns right around calls a fascist police state. (don't understand that?) That's why I got little snarky and I even warned him but his hatred is so ingrained that I do not think he realizes how he comes across in the forum. I noticed that you like to argue and discuss but for the most part it's an intelligent discussion between adults.

Tenshinai wrote:

biochem wrote:
I haven't seen any signs to date that smr's perception is incorrect. So since you claim you don't hate the USA, what if anything do you LIKE about the USA.

You do realise that even if there was a complete absence of such, that still says nothing? Epic logic fail.

But for starters, there´s about 30-40 people there that i count as friends.

And even with all its highly annoying downsides, the US entertainment industry has still provided several of my favourites.

And that´s as far as i will say anything about it for now.


The real problem here is that people in USA assume that everyone else thinks as they do.

You don´t see my discussions in regard to my own nation, so when you see me not doing the usual obligatory cheerleader routine for USA, that automatically means hate...




#####

Easy: the Constitution, my church, my community, my job

3/4 of those are things that has no bearing on the nation(unless the job is somehow an integral part of the nation of course).

And maaan, if i went out and started talking about liking grundlagen(fundamental law/constitution) here, i´d probably get myself comitted to some padded room.
Obsessions are not healthy...

Personally the thing i like best about my own:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundlage ... _documents
In the 18th century, after over 40 years of mixed experiences with parliamentarism, public access to government documents was one of the main issues with the Freedom of the Press Act of 1766.



#####

On the original topic of guns, the international press delighted in printing some responses to Target's plea for their customers not to carry guns while shopping. Twitter responses showing enraged husbands being powerless to guarantee their family's safety if not carrying a gun while shopping in a department store didn't actually convince the world that US society was very sophisticated.

Or sane.

I do admit that I and many others regard some USA international policies with distaste. These would include the assumption that they can invade other sovereign countries, spy on their private citizens, dictate moral standards, expect US law to apply outside their homeland, and generally get their own way just because they carry the biggest stick.

Essentially, USA assumes that rules only apply to it if it wants to. Which means rule of law is totally crushed.
And rule of law is what makes modern society, a FREE society possible at all.

Which makes it so absurd that the land shouting more than all other nations together about freedom, is one of the biggest causes of freedoms lost.

The chemical weapons found in Iraq were totally ineffective, and from memory would have fitted on a single truck.

Yup. And most of them were warheads noone knew even still existed, "lost" during the 1st gulf war (Iraq-Iran).

We too have a constitution which we value, but we regard it as a living document that should be reviewed and changed as necessary.

When needed, change should happen.

In our society a public statement of personal religious fervour is regarded as being somewhat strange.

And again USA stands out in a negative way, freedom of religion is proclaimed, but if for example you look at how likely someone is to get a public office or a promotion, being christian is the way to go, being jewish is sometimes good enough, islamic varies from acceptable to "not a chance", other than that gets more random, while atheists or merely nonreligious people are effectively discriminated against.

...

SMR might be incorrect to presume that Tenshimi is engaging in anti American trolling. I think that Tenshini's anti American sentiments are so deeply ingrained that it does not occurtohim that his expressions of anti-American sentiment are offensive.

This is why I regret the US squandering so much blood and treasure to defend Europe and other allies for over a century. The US would be wealthier and freer if we had simply allowed the totalitarian despots to have their way withtheotherwomen rest of the world.

I don't think we would have been freer or richer had we let Hitler, Stalin and Tojo consolidate their positions. Since Japan did attack us, letting that attack go without response would have invited more. So we wage war against Japan and let Europe become the bone Stalin and Hitler fight over. Where does that leave us?

Europe at war for a much longer period of time and not able to trade in goods and services with us. Their manpower would be spent being soldiers not producing wealth to trade with us. Our citizens would not have the same prosperous post WWII as we actually realized. Whoever wins in Europe would have tried for us eventually. That attempt would hardly make us freer.

namelessfly wrote:SMR might be incorrect to presume that Tenshimi is engaging in anti American trolling. I think that Tenshini's anti American sentiments are so deeply ingrained that it does not occurtohim that his expressions of anti-American sentiment are offensive.

This is why I regret the US squandering so much blood and treasure to defend Europe and other allies for over a century. The US would be wealthier and freer if we had simply allowed the totalitarian despots to have their way withtheotherwomen rest of the world.

pokermind wrote:Tenshinai, the American constitution can be changed by amendments, it is difficult needing a super majority in congress and the state legislatures. Never done but you can call a second constitutional convention and when passed must go for states for ratification, a super majority again. The idea is keeping the ground rules and bill of rights not subject to the passions of the moment.

Oh i know. Problem is that you build up such an insanely deified worship of it that anyone even suggesting anything that could be considered a major change(or heaven forbid, a replacement) will risk getting shot as a national traitor. And that isn´t even an exaggeration!

Grundlagen here has had parts changed or outright completely replaced many times ever since 1634. Arguably, potentially since the 13th century, though those laws were not really for a single united nation as such (except for the law of succession of 1544).

pokermind wrote:Ugh, Islamic people have freedom to practice their religion, although 'Honor Killings' and other violent acts come under violation of our laws. Given our history, our first 'war' was against the north African pirates, the fact Muslims are not elected is no surprise, they can and do run for office that the public does not vote for them is just too bad

It´s still systemic prejudice marring a system that is outspokenly supposed to be devoid of any such.

pokermind wrote:Or as you might put it, "Det är synd." Well according to Google translate

Well, probably not quite like that, although it´s technically correct and workable, the feel it gives is as if someone wrote "it is sin/pity", which doesn´t look so great.

I´m not sure how i would translate what you wrote, most expressions i can think of tend to come out much more argumentative or sarcastic...

OTOH, i´m afraid i can not ascribe to the thought that N.African pirates is the reason, as that subject tend to be one that i rarely see knowledge of in you folks.
And it´s just far too puny and uninfluential as well as far back in history to still be of such importance.

smr wrote:Notice that he refused to say he likes anything about America.

1. Perhaps you should stop lying?
2. Again, that isn´t even relevant to your argument. But since you´ve already shown logic to not be your thing, i guess i shouldn´t be surprised.

smr wrote:He complains when the US acts and he complains when the US does not act in Ukraine.

Please stop lying. I have said absolutely ZERO about "when the US does not act in Ukraine", so that statement is a blatant lie.

smr wrote:He complains that the public owns guns and turns right around calls a fascist police state. (don't understand that?)

You SERIOUSLY need to learn how to read.

I said that USA behaves as a facist police state towards the rest of the world.

And i have absolutely nothing what so ever against "public gun ownership". I have a damned lot against such happening too easily or with zero precautions.

I also very much do not like the foolish attitude that basically say "having guns solves everything".

When i was young, as part of martial arts training, i practised how to handle people with guns, fake guns sure, but using a real trigger with a mini firecracker.

Noone within 1m of me ever managed to get a shot off before i took the gun from them.
And that´s against people with extremely good reflexes.

I´m good at it, but it is a skill just about anyone can learn.

smr wrote:That's why I got little snarky and I even warned him but his hatred is so ingrained that I do not think he realizes how he comes across in the forum.

So ingrained in your prejudice that you can´t even see beyond your own nose. Do notice that i get along perfectly fine with Pokermind, among others.

smr wrote:What I had problem with is obvious trolling that taking place by Tenshinai.

I never troll. Ever. I´m honest and people like you apparently can´t handle that.

But considering how you base your main argument in your post on lying, i guess i´m not surprised.