Guns, Guns Guns

People don't like a country they move often their political views are not the norm. I know a few ex-Kiwis here who don't like the kow-towing to China and thinking appeasing a bully only brings more bulling, in relation to the no nuke policy.

One of the reasons I like this forum is you get a taste of varying views, experiences, and cultures who see things differently. One of the faults of many of my countrymen and honestly even myself at times is the UGLY AMERICAN Syndrome. However to some extent it is normal for us all to think our way is the best is it not?

Poker

Spacekiwi wrote:AS someone who knows around 10 to 15 people from the USA, all were glad to leave.
They felt several parts of the laws and culture, including that around guns, god, and general remuneration were overall bad for the country, and an anchor around the USA's Neck. When you spend time trying to fleece the small guy instead of looking to take a short term loss for a much better long term gain, when you are more focused on rejecting ideas, or forcing them on others because they conflict with your beliefs, and when your first thought in a violent situation is the question of weapons, as opposed to talking them down, you have toxic elements of your culture. And before you say good riddance, 5 phds, 3 masters, 2 bachelors and 2 getting bachelors, plus 2 business owners. SO the bright and savvy are the ones leaving....

Oh certainly. I just found it interesting taht thoise who were self celecting out of the system seemed to be those of higher education, although the improved life opportunities probably accounts for that, who were all tending to move here for pretty much the exact same reasons. And yet they had started from multiple walks of life from Texas through to Washington and Wyoming.

biochem wrote:Keep in mind that you are dealing with a very non-random sample set. These are individuals who have self selected themselves and have preferred to leave the US. The vast majority of US citizens by far, including the vast majority of PhDs, Masters, etc think that the US is a wonderful country and choose to stay in it.

Personally I do think that the US is a wonderful country and is the best country in the world. It is however not perfect, and I am more than happy to expound on areas in which improvement is needed as you can see from my posts. Incidentally most people I know from other countries feel the same way about their OWN country. So I tend to feel that this type of feeling (from the majority of citizens, you'll never get all of them to feel this way) is a "biomarker" for countries that are good places to live.

There are things I like and dislike about other countries throughout the world. Some individual things I like better than the US. Although in the aggregate I prefer the US.

I like some things about Sweden's socialized system for example their handling of the disabled and semi-disabled. However overall I think it's overdone which has made it horrendously expensive and it may not be sustainable in the long run.

I like England's constitutional monarchy, which separates the ceremonial duties from the governmental ones. Given our history, no monarchy would work in the US. So we just have to borrow yours when we feel the need. And you get to collect all of our tourist dollars.

Germany's economic might is impressive. They do a much better job balancing free trade and self interest than the US has been doing lately.

I love Australia and would love to visit some day. Australia has always been a great Ally to the US (note I said Ally, NOT lapdog or minion). Australia strikes me as in a lot of ways having similar values as the US (note I said similar NOT the same).

New Zealand seems like a great place to live as well and also appears to have done a reasonably good job of keeping their citizen's happy.

Oh, agreed, i just found it intersting in what their world view was, and their overall intelligence levels and life histories. I know NZ has lots of faults, especially in regards to our prime ministers ( and the australians PM's) views on how to treat the little people at the moment. (Including Aus, because where they go, we tend to try and copy a bit). I just believe the advantages of living here outweigh the disadvantages. My daily traffic jam is made of sheep for example.
quote="pokermind"]People don't like a country they move, often their political views are not the norm. I know a few ex-Kiwis here who don't like the kow-towing to China and thinking appeasing a bully only brings more bulling, in relation to the no nuke policy.

One of the reasons I like this forum is you get a taste of varying views, experiences, and cultures who see things differently. One of the faults of many of my countrymen and honestly even myself at times is the UGLY AMERICAN Syndrome. However to some extent it is normal for us all to think our way is the best is it not?

Poker[/quote]

I have always thought that Germanynand Japan would have won the war if Hitler had accepted Spain's demand for $1 billion to become active in the war.

If Spain had allied with Hitler, they could have taken Gilbralter from the British. This would have transformed the Mediteranean into a land locked lake dominated by the Italian and probably surrendered French Fleets. Control of the Med would have compromised British ability to support their forces in the Indian Ocean and Pacific and import troops and supplies from Australia, NZ and India. This would have been beneficial to the Japanese who would have been able to devote their full attention to the US.

With control of the Mediterranean, Germany could have employed thebFrenchnand Italian fleet to attack Russia through the Black sea.

biochem wrote:

If the US had remained uninvolved, Japan, Germany, Russia and the other European powers would have destroyed their industrial infrastructure and decimated their populations. The world population would be smaller and less industrialized so the resources of the world, including oil, would be ours for the taking.

That might be a bit optimistic. Had the US not entered, the probability that Europe and the Pacific would have fallen is high. Give Hitler a few years to rebuild his destroyed infrastructure and he would have been able to launch an attack against the Western Hemisphere which we would have had to fight virtually alone. Looking at WWII with the rose colored glasses of time, it's "obvious" that the Allies would win. In reality, it was a close call especially at the beginning before the US was able to ramp up it's war production capability. Had a few more key incidents fallen in Germany's favor, they might have won. The world is blessed that they didn't. For all of those who don't like the US, imagine a world dominated by Nazi ideals.

Zakharra wrote: America is one of the accepted short names for the USA. It's an accepted commonly used contraction of the United States of America (which is the only nation in North or South America with 'America' in it) and is used all over the world. Using America for the continent is inaccurate since there are two American continents. It's usually North America or South America and sometimes Central America on the North American continent to describe which areas or continents are meant. Or the Americas when indicating both of them. But to say that using America as the name of the USA is a common linguistic mistake is a mistake on your part. World wide, America means the USA. This is especially true when you can say 'they are Americans' and everyone immediately knows what country you're talking about.

I´m afraid you are incorrect. And if you look it up properly, you will find that i am correct.

I know that because i once had to look it up for a troublesome translation job i did.


"America" the continent refers to North, Central and South America as a single part, and is technically a proper reference due to how it is correct to say "the American continent" and similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America
It can also be considered a northern subcontinent of the Americas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
The Americas, or America,[5][6][7] also known as the New World, are the combined continental landmasses of North America and South America

This is similar to how the Indian subcontinent have been dismissed as being it´s own continent.


USA=/=America because the latter is in the former.
Think what it means. United States OF America.
"America" by itself is not in any way the name of the nation.

If you say that someone is ~American, you can correctly refere to a Brazilian, a Canadian or someone from USA just as well.
But if you call someone an ~american, you are specifically showing that you are not using the word in the sense of a NAME, which is the continent, but rather as a descriptive.

For a quick and dirty comparison, if i use "yankee" to refer to someone from USA, i do not capitalise that either as that is also not a proper name.
If i were to write "Yankee" instead, then that becomes the NATO code for a certain class of submarines, as that as far as i know is the only variation on that word that is used as a name.

biochem wrote:That might be a bit optimistic. Had the US not entered, the probability that Europe and the Pacific would have fallen is high.

Now you´re falsifying history again. USA did not enter WWII. Japan and then Germany declared war on USA.

Roosevelt certainly wanted to enter the war, but not even after war with Japan was a fact, did he dare to declare war on Germany due to domestic opinion.

Give Hitler a few years to rebuild his destroyed infrastructure and he would have been able to launch an attack against the Western Hemisphere which we would have had to fight virtually alone. Looking at WWII with the rose colored glasses of time, it's "obvious" that the Allies would win. In reality, it was a close call especially at the beginning before the US was able to ramp up it's war production capability.

By the time Germany had effectively expended the vast majority of it´s efforts, USA was just barely starting to do something worthwhile in the European theater.

Stalingrad is often touted as a "turning point", but that´s wrong. That was the first big "event" that happened because a turning point had already been passed, and the Germans failed to deal with it enough to avoid a disaster.

Had a few more key incidents fallen in Germany's favor, they might have won.

Not really no. Attacking USSR backed by a logistics ability severely subpar to the task essentially made sure that Germany was doomed.

Added to that was the fact that they had a lack of manpower from 1940 and onwards, badly so from 1941-.

Keep in mind that you are dealing with a very non-random sample set. These are individuals who have self selected themselves and have preferred to leave the US. The vast majority of US citizens by far, including the vast majority of PhDs, Masters, etc think that the US is a wonderful country and choose to stay in it.

Yes, all hail the grand myth.

Germany's economic might is impressive. They do a much better job balancing free trade and self interest than the US has been doing lately.

Well, much of that is cheating however. They are effectively doing the opposite of what USA has long been doing. The Euro is heavily undervalued for Germany, which means German export industry is having a wonderful time.

While the Euro(in part because of Germany) is extremely overvalued for Greece, which means Greece would be in trouble even if it had zero corruption issues.

I like some things about Sweden's socialized system for example their handling of the disabled and semi-disabled. However overall I think it's overdone which has made it horrendously expensive and it may not be sustainable in the long run.

It isn´t anywhere near as expensive as detractors claim. Though it has become vastly more expensive due to various privatizations in the last decade.

pokermind wrote:People don't like a country they move often their political views are not the norm. I know a few ex-Kiwis here who don't like the kow-towing to China and thinking appeasing a bully only brings more bulling, in relation to the no nuke policy.

One of the reasons I like this forum is you get a taste of varying views, experiences, and cultures who see things differently. One of the faults of many of my countrymen and honestly even myself at times is the UGLY AMERICAN Syndrome. However to some extent it is normal for us all to think our way is the best is it not?

Poker

I generally assume "my way" isn´t the best way. Otherwise improvement is hard to come by.

And in general, i think this quote has a fair amount of relevance:

>That seems to point up a significant difference between Europeans and
Americans. A European says: "I can't understand this, what's wrong with
me?" An American says: "I can't understand this, what's wrong with him?"<
-- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)

Spacekiwi wrote:My daily traffic jam is made of sheep for example.

namelessfly wrote:I have always thought that Germanynand Japan would have won the war if Hitler had accepted Spain's demand for $1 billion to become active in the war.

It would have made a big dent, but win just because of that? Extremely unlikely.

More importantly however, Spain KNEW that Germany had no ability to pay anything like that, Germany was halfway to bankruptcy even in 1939, and without plundering conquered territories, it would have gone bankrupt somewhere 1940-1942.

Also, Spain at the time was utterly dependent on importing food from USA. Germany simply did not have the excess food production to give the guarantee Spain wanted.

namelessfly wrote:and probably surrendered French Fleets

Not a chance. The French were extremely miffed when the Brits tried to destroy remaining parts of the French fleet, and if you look at what happened, French commanders consistently scuttled their ships before letting them fall into the hands of the Germans.

Even historically(Operation Lila, when Hitler TRIED to take Vichy ships at Toulon 1942), with a commander accepting Vichy as his legal government, he was still willing to have the sailors fight in defense of the port and then scuttle all ships.

3 battleships, 7 cruisers, 15 destroyers and several dozen other ships were scuttled.
Despite the German sneak attack (after stating that the port would be left in Vichy hands, according to Raeder´s recommendation) against the port, they still only managed to capture 3 disarmed destroyers.

namelessfly wrote:Control of the Med would have compromised British ability to support their forces in the Indian Ocean and Pacific and import troops and supplies from Australia, NZ and India.

Not nearly as much as you believe. Near zero actual shipping to the Asian theatre went through the Mediterranean, because it was simply far too dangerous due to the landbased Italian airforces.

And at least at some points, even the depleted Italian navy units of midwar, could be very dangerous. (Italian torpedo boats was for example considered among the worlds most dangerous)

namelessfly wrote:With control of the Mediterranean, Germany could have employed thebFrenchnand Italian fleet to attack Russia through the Black sea.

Eh, say WHAT?



Sorry, complete pipedream. Just getting into or out of the Black sea during the war was an extremely prickly business for anyone, because Turkey was very serious about keeping that specific strait under FIRM control.

And they learned their lesson in WWI, Turkey was very unlikely to join the axis.

You also forget that UK would still hold the Suez and be able to move ships into and out of the Med that way.

And the only realistic way for UK to loose that would be by radically rewriting strategy for both UK, Italy and Germany.

Sorry Tenshinai, but speaking as someone who grew up in an English speaking country that is not the USA, we use the term American to refer to a citizen of the USA. We would never use american to refer to a Canadian or Brazilian. The English language has many irregularities and loves to break rules. I know no Swedish and respect your knowledge of our language, but you are incorrect in this case.
Australians betray their Cockney roots by using rhyming slang, so a common term here for citizens of the USA is Septics, from Septic Tank, from Yank. I know that not all Americans think of themselves as Yankees, but many here don't know that.

I'd second other views of how people love their country and prefer it to all others (unless it's North Korea or Somalia). My interest in US culture is because in some ways we are similar, but in others we are very different, and I'd like to understand why. Plus the USA is so big and sure of its self it tends to impact negatively on other countries at times, so we have a legitimate right to be involved in discussions.

Their is one way for Nazi Germany to win WW II.
Don't invade Poland first.

Germany invaded Poland first, so France and GB had to declare war on Germany. Two weeks later Russia started to invade Poland from the east. But France and GB never declared war on Russia.

If russia would have invaded first, Germany just had to wait, until France and GB would declare War on Russia. Than Germany could have played the role of the savior to stop the russian aggression.

Without the declaration of war from France and GB, Nazi Germany could have concentrated completly to the east. Hitler never wanted to fight GB and France, but by attacking Poland first he left them no choice.