Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

Lord Skimper wrote:It is funny how these ships are so out dated but at the same time such a threat. If they are so much of death traps Manticore can just sweep up and take the entire Solarian league in a New Butter cup campaign.

Add in a few Army or Marine battalions in Fast Transports and just take over the league. With 300 worlds of Haven on side, one wouldn't even be taxed for personnel.

One could even take the Core worlds first and have the lesser worlds sue for peace. It isn't like any ships need sit back and defend the home worlds they are so well protected nothing can even get within 50 million Klicks of them, short of a second Oyster Bay. And that likely wouldn't even work a second time.

Spacekiwi wrote:To quote: quantity has a quality all of its own....



The problem isnt the ships power. Its their number, and the fact that the GA would have to spend nearlt all their limited missiles (production lines being gone after Oyster Bay), and having to hope that they can get the SLN fast enough before resistance build sup enough that the SLN can hold on long enough to begin poibg a proper threat. Same as the first Haven-Manticore war, Manticore needed a quick win, otherwise, as happened, the havenites superior quantity became a continued threat as they could whittle away at manticore. same here.
Don't forget, the GA needs to stay strong in order to be able to combat the Malign, so The GA are worried about the SL managing to survive long enough that the GA has to start an attrition war while the SL catches up. Losing valuable crew and ships that cant be replaced for months/years, while the SL can throw away fleets just to whittle down the Ga's resources is a real threat.

Lord Skimper wrote:It is funny how these ships are so out dated but at the same time such a threat. If they are so much of death traps Manticore can just sweep up and take the entire Solarian league in a New Butter cup campaign.

Add in a few Army or Marine battalions in Fast Transports and just take over the league. With 300 worlds of Haven on side, one wouldn't even be taxed for personnel.

One could even take the Core worlds first and have the lesser worlds sue for peace. It isn't like any ships need sit back and defend the home worlds they are so well protected nothing can even get within 50 million Klicks of them, short of a second Oyster Bay. And that likely wouldn't even work a second time.

n7axw wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:It is funny how these ships are so out dated but at the same time such a threat. If they are so much of death traps Manticore can just sweep up and take the entire Solarian league in a New Butter cup campaign.

Add in a few Army or Marine battalions in Fast Transports and just take over the league. With 300 worlds of Haven on side, one wouldn't even be taxed for personnel.

One could even take the Core worlds first and have the lesser worlds sue for peace. It isn't like any ships need sit back and defend the home worlds they are so well protected nothing can even get within 50 million Klicks of them, short of a second Oyster Bay. And that likely wouldn't even work a second time.

The problem isn't that the SLN could actually pose a threat. The issue is that the League is just so darned big that the GA couldn't choke it down!!!

Don

Spacekiwi wrote:To quote: quantity has a quality all of its own....



The problem isnt the ships power. Its their number, and the fact that the GA would have to spend nearlt all their limited missiles (production lines being gone after Oyster Bay), and having to hope that they can get the SLN fast enough before resistance build sup enough that the SLN can hold on long enough to begin poibg a proper threat. Same as the first Haven-Manticore war, Manticore needed a quick win, otherwise, as happened, the havenites superior quantity became a continued threat as they could whittle away at manticore. same here.
Don't forget, the GA needs to stay strong in order to be able to combat the Malign, so The GA are worried about the SL managing to survive long enough that the GA has to start an attrition war while the SL catches up. Losing valuable crew and ships that cant be replaced for months/years, while the SL can throw away fleets just to whittle down the Ga's resources is a real threat.

Lord Skimper wrote:It is funny how these ships are so out dated but at the same time such a threat. If they are so much of death traps Manticore can just sweep up and take the entire Solarian league in a New Butter cup campaign.

Add in a few Army or Marine battalions in Fast Transports and just take over the league. With 300 worlds of Haven on side, one wouldn't even be taxed for personnel.

One could even take the Core worlds first and have the lesser worlds sue for peace. It isn't like any ships need sit back and defend the home worlds they are so well protected nothing can even get within 50 million Klicks of them, short of a second Oyster Bay. And that likely wouldn't even work a second time.

Spacekiwi wrote:To quote: quantity has a quality all of its own....



The problem isnt the ships power. Its their number, and the fact that the GA would have to spend nearlt all their limited missiles (production lines being gone after Oyster Bay), and having to hope that they can get the SLN fast enough before resistance build sup enough that the SLN can hold on long enough to begin poibg a proper threat. Same as the first Haven-Manticore war, Manticore needed a quick win, otherwise, as happened, the havenites superior quantity became a continued threat as they could whittle away at manticore. same here.
Don't forget, the GA needs to stay strong in order to be able to combat the Malign, so The GA are worried about the SL managing to survive long enough that the GA has to start an attrition war while the SL catches up. Losing valuable crew and ships that cant be replaced for months/years, while the SL can throw away fleets just to whittle down the Ga's resources is a real threat.

Lord Skimper wrote:It is funny how these ships are so out dated but at the same time such a threat. If they are so much of death traps Manticore can just sweep up and take the entire Solarian league in a New Butter cup campaign.

Add in a few Army or Marine battalions in Fast Transports and just take over the league. With 300 worlds of Haven on side, one wouldn't even be taxed for personnel.

One could even take the Core worlds first and have the lesser worlds sue for peace. It isn't like any ships need sit back and defend the home worlds they are so well protected nothing can even get within 50 million Klicks of them, short of a second Oyster Bay. And that likely wouldn't even work a second time.

Lord Skimper wrote:

Haven had some pre Apollo equivalents with a chance against the then current tech. Apollo tech numbers being so small and limited. Against the Manty's the League they doesn't even have the slightest chance. It's like fighting slings and clubs with helicopter gunships.

50 SD(P) can punch out any system, The GA has 500 ships? 100 core worlds 10 at a time fall pretty darn quickly.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Spacekiwi wrote:Oh, agreed on practicality, but it was just the way DW described them not as obsolete ships, as as obsolete weapons platforms that made me suspicious. He misleads us all the time, but the question is, in which direction with this one? I have a feeling he doesnt like to say about this one.....

Frankly, I hope we get a few paragraphs in the next mainline honorverse book that informs us that the Solly SDs in Manty possession have been sent to the breakers so we can write finis to this discussion once for all.

Don

I agree. Personally I think there's just not many Pratical things that canb e done with the captured ships other than target practice or scraps/reclaaimation of raw materials.*quote**quote*
But why would he do that and remove all of his amusement at the idiotic suggestions for their use?

lyonheart wrote:

Spacekiwi wrote:Oh, agreed on practicality, but it was just the way DW described them not as obsolete ships, as as obsolete weapons platforms that made me suspicious. He misleads us all the time, but the question is, in which direction with this one? I have a feeling he doesnt like to say about this one.....

Frankly, I hope we get a few paragraphs in the next mainline honorverse book that informs us that the Solly SDs in Manty possession have been sent to the breakers so we can write finis to this discussion once for all.

Don
I agree. Personally I think there's just not many Pratical things that canb e done with the captured ships other than target practice or scraps/reclaaimation of raw materials.*quote**quote*

fallsfromtrees wrote:
But why would he do that and remove all of his amusement at the idiotic suggestions for their use?

Hi FallsFromTrees, SpaceKiwi,

It certainly would be amusing to have them all scrapped very quickly, and I'm sure we'll have textev references to Filareta's SD's providing some of the materiel making up the new space stations, etc, but I don't see that as their only future, ie their obsolescence depends on who or what their compared to.

Guys, just because the BF SD's are pitiful compared to GA and IAN SDP's doesn't make them worthless.

The equation goes something like this:

SDP > SD > BC > etc everything else.

Keeping in mind RMN and probably RHN BC's, CA's etc can also kill BF SD's with just Mk-16's or the RHN's comparable DDM.

Granted the GA has over 600 SD's and DN's, before adding the IAN's 311, which it or the AE can provide ex-SL members and fresh allies before scrapping the barrel with the 108 captured [so far] BF SD's, the 70 damaged could be spare parts or repairable depending on who is willing to invest in the required repairs, but probably could be done by desperate core systems.

If the BF SD's cost ~M$50 Billion each, without any bidding up, that's potentially over M$30 TRILLION, not counting the IAN's, before adding the ex-BF SD's for another M$5-6 trillion and any further captures, certainly useful for a system needing cash to repair and recover from the OB.

Remember, just over 2/3 of the SL have only LAC's, so their interest on something more powerful has increased dramatically given the crisis at hand, and RFC/[then the MWW] has detailed how some have trusted the SL to protect them from belligerent neighbors, while others have armed themselves in self defense, not trusting the SL to be there much longer, given the "interesting times" they've seen since CoS.

How much would a ex-protectorate system pay for an old SD that could keep the FF and OFS away?

I could see the GA offering cash for a fraction of the local transtellars' assessed local property as a cooperative investment, mainly to provide liquidity for the new government; but even an old waller [SD or DN] is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions the OFS and transtellar were sucking out of the system each year, and there are too many FF BC's to think the ex-protectorate system won't want something more powerful quickly.

So no I don't see the ex-BF SD's soon wasted as targets.

L

Spacekiwi wrote:To quote: quantity has a quality all of its own....



The problem isnt the ships power. Its their number, and the fact that the GA would have to spend nearlt all their limited missiles (production lines being gone after Oyster Bay), and having to hope that they can get the SLN fast enough before resistance build sup enough that the SLN can hold on long enough to begin poibg a proper threat. Same as the first Haven-Manticore war, Manticore needed a quick win, otherwise, as happened, the havenites superior quantity became a continued threat as they could whittle away at manticore. same here.
Don't forget, the GA needs to stay strong in order to be able to combat the Malign, so The GA are worried about the SL managing to survive long enough that the GA has to start an attrition war while the SL catches up. Losing valuable crew and ships that cant be replaced for months/years, while the SL can throw away fleets just to whittle down the Ga's resources is a real threat.

Lord Skimper wrote:It is funny how these ships are so out dated but at the same time such a threat. If they are so much of death traps Manticore can just sweep up and take the entire Solarian league in a New Butter cup campaign.

Add in a few Army or Marine battalions in Fast Transports and just take over the league. With 300 worlds of Haven on side, one wouldn't even be taxed for personnel.

One could even take the Core worlds first and have the lesser worlds sue for peace. It isn't like any ships need sit back and defend the home worlds they are so well protected nothing can even get within 50 million Klicks of them, short of a second Oyster Bay. And that likely wouldn't even work a second time.

lyonheart wrote:Hi SpaceKiwi,

From various textev, the GA is a lot tougher and more resilient than the SL, so your concern might be exaggerated.

The RMN has around 24-25 million MDM's, since the ~200 RHN SDP's [albeit 20-40 were CLAC's] carried only 400 pods each, for a maximum of 80,000 or only 800,000 MDM's before adding whatever was carried in by RHN ammunition ships, the RMN provided around 90-96% of the missiles HH-A mentioned.

Taking out the BF reserve soon with Mistletoe's or with a single MDM each ought to be relatively easy, although if the price is right the last 'anchorage' or two might have many more SD's seized and escorted out to meet that demand, rather than simply destroyed.

The active BF of around 1500 SD's at 200 MDM's each means only 300,000 MDM's, hardly threatening the RMN's MDM supply.

Given the promise that Manticore would have its MDM production lines up by the end of the year, before Haven and Beowulf began to help, so besides Beowulf' new MDM production, Manticore's could have already restarted here in October.

L

lyonheart wrote:Hi FallsFromTrees, SpaceKiwi,

It certainly would be amusing to have them all scrapped very quickly, and I'm sure we'll have textev references to Filareta's SD's providing some of the materiel making up the new space stations, etc, but I don't see that as their only future, ie their obsolescence depends on who or what their compared to.

Guys, just because the BF SD's are pitiful compared to GA and IAN SDP's doesn't make them worthless.

The equation goes something like this:

SDP > SD > BC > etc everything else.

Keeping in mind RMN and probably RHN BC's, CA's etc can also kill BF SD's with just Mk-16's or the RHN's comparable DDM.

Granted the GA has over 600 SD's and DN's, before adding the IAN's 311, which it or the AE can provide ex-SL members and fresh allies before scrapping the barrel with the 108 captured [so far] BF SD's, the 70 damaged could be spare parts or repairable depending on who is willing to invest in the required repairs, but probably could be done by desperate core systems.

If the BF SD's cost ~M$50 Billion each, without any bidding up, that's potentially over M$30 TRILLION, not counting the IAN's, before adding the ex-BF SD's for another M$5-6 trillion and any further captures, certainly useful for a system needing cash to repair and recover from the OB.

Remember, just over 2/3 of the SL have only LAC's, so their interest on something more powerful has increased dramatically given the crisis at hand, and RFC/[then the MWW] has detailed how some have trusted the SL to protect them from belligerent neighbors, while others have armed themselves in self defense, not trusting the SL to be there much longer, given the "interesting times" they've seen since CoS.

How much would a ex-protectorate system pay for an old SD that could keep the FF and OFS away?

I could see the GA offering cash for a fraction of the local transtellars' assessed local property as a cooperative investment, mainly to provide liquidity for the new government; but even an old waller [SD or DN] is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions the OFS and transtellar were sucking out of the system each year, and there are too many FF BC's to think the ex-protectorate system won't want something more powerful quickly.

So no I don't see the ex-BF SD's soon wasted as targets.

L



I agree. Personally I think there's just not many Pratical things that canb e done with the captured ships other than target practice or scraps/reclaaimation of raw materials.*quote**quote*
But why would he do that and remove all of his amusement at the idiotic suggestions for their use?