Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:Treecats and the Deneb Accords

Should Elizabeth push for an updated "Deneb Accords" on behalf of treecats to protect their rights under the umbrella of a sentient species, to prevent this from happening to any future treecats captured in space during a war?...

POWs who assaulted their captors other than in escape attempts, or in self-defense, forfeited the protections of the Accords, though the punishment for such actions could not be capital, even for murder.

Provoked incident was an excuse to explain, why senior personnel of Allied Cruiser Squadron 18 weren't transferred into regular POW camp, but taken into custody by the Havenite Office of State Security. It seems it was a case without precedent however:

⦁it wasn't mentioned that any combatant bonded treecat was captured earlier,
Nimitz' unique status was not claimed before captors and recognized by them, like:
⦁a minor child, protected by the Constitution of the Star Kingdom of Manticore,
⦁a bonded person, recognized and recorded by the Royal Manticoran Navy,
⦁the Havenite government did not recognize Nimitz as a sentient creature; Cordelia Ransom of the Committee of Public Safety issued orders to shoot him immediately with the excuse that POWs should not possess pets,
⦁self-defense issue: the only person entitled to act in direct self-defense was Nimitz, because of their bonding, Commodore Harrington was forced to defend Nimitz,
⦁Grayson law obliged members of the Harrington Guard to defend their steadholder,
⦁not all present CruRon 18 personnel made an assault on StateSec functionaries.

The Geneva Protocol, associated with the Geneva Convention, dealt specifically with weapons of war, such as banning the use of bio-chemical, Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare.

Perhaps the galaxy at large now, or at a later date would, or should, include a ban on any nano agents used by the MAlign. Recent advances in technology has significantly altered the threat vector, as has proved to be a pointed lesson learned by the SLN.

But also has the threat vector changed significantly in these previously mentioned biological areas of warfare and time for the galaxy at large to take a stance on it as well.

Also, IIRC, Elizabeth absolved Eloise and her Republic from having to pay reparations to the Star Empire. I don't think any reparations were due Grayson, therefore the question of whether she had a right to speak for Grayson is moot.

OTOH, the management of Hades under StateSec completely transgressed on everything the Deneb Accords stood for. And since there were prisoners from several governments, reparations were owed these POWs, and it seems Elizabeth did not have the right to speak for what was owed to them.

On Grayson and reparations, Grayson was represented during the negotiations namely Steadholder Harrington. HH may have been the moderator between QEIII and Pritchard but she would've seen to it that Grayson interests weren't overlooked. Also QEIII and Pritchard were negotiating broad outlines for the peace treaty with the nitty gritty details being negotiated later.

ART:

The one ally there had been time to actually consult was the Protectorate of Grayson, three and a half T-days from the Manticore Binary System by dispatch boat. Elizabeth had sent Benjamin Mayhew word of Pritchart's totally unexpected visit the day the president arrived, and Benjamin Mayhew, with a decisiveness and speed unusual even for him, had needed only hours to decide where he stood. He'd sent back his enthusiastic support . . . and his only brother as his personal envoy.

Michael Mayhew had arrived yesterday, just in time to put his own signature on the draft as Grayson's plenipotentiary. Which, given most Manticorans' attitude towards their most constant ally, could only be a major plus. Not to mention demonstrating to all the Star Empire's allies as conclusively as humanly possible that William Alexander and his government were not Michael Janvier and his government.

Duckk wrote:ART:

The one ally there had been time to actually consult was the Protectorate of Grayson, three and a half T-days from the Manticore Binary System by dispatch boat. Elizabeth had sent Benjamin Mayhew word of Pritchart's totally unexpected visit the day the president arrived, and Benjamin Mayhew, with a decisiveness and speed unusual even for him, had needed only hours to decide where he stood. He'd sent back his enthusiastic support . . . and his only brother as his personal envoy.

Michael Mayhew had arrived yesterday, just in time to put his own signature on the draft as Grayson's plenipotentiary. Which, given most Manticorans' attitude towards their most constant ally, could only be a major plus. Not to mention demonstrating to all the Star Empire's allies as conclusively as humanly possible that William Alexander and his government were not Michael Janvier and his government.

Thanks for the excerpt. I remember it now. So Grayson was the only ally time would permit pre-authorization. Does that mean Elizabeth spoke for all of the other allies and NO reparations across the board? If so, would that be legally binding?

There were quite a few POWs whose rights were infringed upon on Hades. The Republic can ill-afford reparations of that magnitude.

cthia wrote:Treecats and the Deneb Accords

Should Elizabeth push for an updated "Deneb Accords" on behalf of treecats to protect their rights under the umbrella of a sentient species, to prevent this from happening to any future treecats captured in space during a war?...

POWs who assaulted their captors other than in escape attempts, or in self-defense, forfeited the protections of the Accords, though the punishment for such actions could not be capital, even for murder.

Provoked incident was an excuse to explain, why senior personnel of Allied Cruiser Squadron 18 weren't transferred into regular POW camp, but taken into custody by the Havenite Office of State Security. It seems it was a case without precedent however:

⦁it wasn't mentioned that any combatant bonded treecat was captured earlier,
Nimitz' unique status was not claimed before captors and recognized by them, like:
⦁a minor child, protected by the Constitution of the Star Kingdom of Manticore,
⦁a bonded person, recognized and recorded by the Royal Manticoran Navy,
⦁the Havenite government did not recognize Nimitz as a sentient creature; Cordelia Ransom of the Committee of Public Safety issued orders to shoot him immediately with the excuse that POWs should not possess pets,
⦁self-defense issue: the only person entitled to act in direct self-defense was Nimitz, because of their bonding, Commodore Harrington was forced to defend Nimitz,
⦁Grayson law obliged members of the Harrington Guard to defend their steadholder,
⦁not all present CruRon 18 personnel made an assault on StateSec functionaries.

The Geneva Protocol, associated with the Geneva Convention, dealt specifically with weapons of war, such as banning the use of bio-chemical, Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare.

Perhaps the galaxy at large now, or at a later date would, or should, include a ban on any nano agents used by the MAlign. Recent advances in technology has significantly altered the threat vector, as has proved to be a pointed lesson learned by the SLN.

But also has the threat vector changed significantly in these previously mentioned biological areas of warfare and time for the galaxy at large to take a stance on it as well.

Also, IIRC, Elizabeth absolved Eloise and her Republic from having to pay reparations to the Star Empire. I don't think any reparations were due Grayson, therefore the question of whether she had a right to speak for Grayson is moot.

OTOH, the management of Hades under StateSec completely transgressed on everything the Deneb Accords stood for. And since there were prisoners from several governments, reparations were owed these POWs, and it seems Elizabeth did not have the right to speak for what was owed to them.

saber964 wrote:On Grayson and reparations, Grayson was represented during the negotiations namely Steadholder Harrington. HH may have been the moderator between QEIII and Pritchard but she would've seen to it that Grayson interests weren't overlooked. Also QEIII and Pritchard were negotiating broad outlines for the peace treaty with the nitty gritty details being negotiated later.

Would Grayson have been owed reparations? And for what? Manticore, certainly. I don't even remember Grayson being represented in POWs on Hades.

Hades had a few Grayson's there namely ENS Carson Clinckscales CDR Solomon Marchant and Lt. Jasper Mayhew. Also reread the musings of the StSec sergeant aboard PNS Krashnark IIRC he was lumping in Zanzibaren Alzonians and Grayson's as Manties.

There was also the practical thinking of do they want a poor humiliated nation as a neighbor or a prosperous trading partner as one.

Why was Honor never assigned a BC? I often found myself wishing she'd been aboard one in either of the Yeltsin Star skirmishes. She had a light cruiser and a heavy cruiser. It's as if the admiralty didn't want her to do anything but cruise.

Had she not been captured or exiled, do you think she would have moved up in ship size?

saber964 wrote:Hades had a few Grayson's there namely ENS Carson Clinckscales CDR Solomon Marchant and Lt. Jasper Mayhew. Also reread the musings of the StSec sergeant aboard PNS Krashnark IIRC he was lumping in Zanzibaren Alzonians and Grayson's as Manties.

I reread that saber. You are indeed correct. Thanks.

cthia wrote:Why was Honor never assigned a BC? I often found myself wishing she'd been aboard one in either of the Yeltsin Star skirmishes. She had a light cruiser and a heavy cruiser. It's as if the admiralty didn't want her to do anything but cruise.

Had she not been captured or exiled, do you think she would have moved up in ship size?

I recommend you reread "A Short Victorious War".

The E wrote:

cthia wrote:Why was Honor never assigned a BC? I often found myself wishing she'd been aboard one in either of the Yeltsin Star skirmishes. She had a light cruiser and a heavy cruiser. It's as if the admiralty didn't want her to do anything but cruise.

Had she not been captured or exiled, do you think she would have moved up in ship size?

I recommend you reread "A Short Victorious War".

Thanks E.

How could I have forgotten Nike. Lest the particulars of her had gotten lost in my mind amidst the muck she had inherited from Sarnow during the First Battle of Hancock. She was assigned to his force as his flag officer. She was still commanding a BC, and that counts. But I was more wishing she rode a BC as a singleton, on her own, as was with Fearless. BCs operate as singletons don't they? They're the ships that straddle the line between smaller combatants and screens for larger ones. They'll do perfectly fine in some polity's back yard raiding or she'd fit in perfectly, off as a singleton facing the odds that normally befell the Salamander.

You know, I've only read SVW once. This is why I have a hard time reading the spinoffs, when I could reread a mainline novel for a second time. (No excuse, but fact.) So much happened in SVW that the fact Nike was a BC was in the background in my head. I need to reread that one again. I'll appreciate it even more the second time around.

But Nike was assigned to someone else's order of battle and Honor took a back seat until fate played a part. Then everything was dumped into her lap along with the biggest wholeass of the galaxy.

Sure would've been nice if she could have commanded Nike longer. Plus, they gave her a brand new ship that was broken and one about to become obsolete. Darn, can anything ever go right for Honor?

How can someone that's obviously so charmed also be so unlucky? Goes to cause that luck and charm are not synonymous.


An aside:

wiki:
Nike's armor was composed of a new material, a complex ceramic and metal alloy which had extremely low density and great toughness. It was formed in place as part of the basic matrix of the ship, rather than being added on later, which gave it greatly increased integrity against damage. The upper and lower hull of the ship was not armored, as these were protected by the ship's wedge, which allowed the side armor thickness to be increased to 12 cm over important areas and as much as a full 100 cm over vital areas such as fusion rooms.

This increased armor protection did have the drawback that access to the fusion plants was very difficult, since cutting through the armor plating was almost impossible with laser cutters and difficult even with chem-catalyst cutters. However, cutting through the unarmoured lower hull instead of the thickly armored side alleviated this difficulty.

Also wiki:
On her trip to Hancock, Nike suffered a failure in her aft fusion plant. The system was repaired on-site under the supervision of Captain Paul Tankersley that would take fourteen weeks.

↑ The failure was caused by a fracture of the primary bottle generator housing, likely having occurred after the ship had begun a normal operational cycle.

I always wondered, could the failure simply have been a symptom, and the real problem the fact that only part of the ship was fitted with this new armor?

I know that the failure didn't occur during battle - which may have lent credence to this suggestion. Yet this was a new armor and perhaps the marrying of the two had imperfections that caused vibrations, frequencies in the structure under load -- which transferred to the engine room. Perhaps these frequency vibrations were the culprit.

AND, was this new armor ever used again?