Honorverse ramblings and musings

Duckk wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:You do not recall correctly. there is explicit textev that the population is ~~60% slaves.

Uhh, not quite. Straight from the text:

[i]By now, the Darius System's total population was in the very near vicinity of 3.9 billion, of whom just under two billion were representatives of one of the alpha, beta, or gamma genomes the Alignment had worked to improve for so long. The remainder of the system population were genetic slaves,

Jonathan_S wrote:So that makes it more like 34% slaves. Though kzt has a point; even the non-skave residents aren't very free.

Interesting. Darius has a population equal to Manticore's. If Darius gets into a long protracted war with the GA, I wonder what impact it will have on their population - considering 34 % of their population is a slave pool which they cannot draw from. A reality the US eventually found wasn't feasible.

Shadow of Saganami

"And the fourth point is that unlike a great many other middies, you're making your snotty cruise in time of war. It's entirely possible Hexapuma will be called to action while you are on board. You may be wounded. You may be killed. And what is even worse, as I can tell you from personal experience, you may see those you care about—friends or those under your orders—killed or wounded. Accept that now, but don't allow it to prey upon your thoughts or to paralyze you if the moment actually comes. And remember that aboard this ship, you are Queen's officers. You may live, or you may die, but your actions—whatever they may be—will reflect not simply upon you, but upon every man and woman ever called upon to wear the uniform we all wear. See to it that any reflections you cast are the ones for which you want to be remembered . . . because you will be."

When I read this, I immediately thought about the shock that some snotties will suffer in the first battle where they actually see wounded, maimed and dismembered bodies for the first time. I'm thinking... ... with Honorverse tech - holograms and what not - snotties could somewhat be introduced to the overall "feeling" of death and dismemberment via a holographic scene of death lifted right off of battle damaged ships? I wonder if Honorverse tech can simulate the stench of burning flesh?

cthia wrote:Interesting. Darius has a population equal to Manticore's. If Darius gets into a long protracted war with the GA, I wonder what impact it will have on their population - considering 34 % of their population is a slave pool which they cannot draw from. A reality the US eventually found wasn't feasible.

I doubt that Darius considers their feminist music critics, Leisure Studies columnists, and transgressive graffiti artists as necessary for their economy as Manticore does.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Duckk wrote:
[i]By now, the Darius System's total population was in the very near vicinity of 3.9 billion, of whom just under two billion were representatives of one of the alpha, beta, or gamma genomes the Alignment had worked to improve for so long. The remainder of the system population were genetic slaves,

So that makes it more like 34% slaves. Though kzt has a point; even the non-skave residents aren't very free.

Jonathan, I don't get to correct you very often.

If you have a ~3.9 Billion population and just under 2 billion are "free", then just under 2 billion are slaves, or ~50% of the population.

We don't know all of what the persons who come and go from Darius do or are. What we have seen is the Oyster Bay strike. Apparently Albrect Detweiler and sons travel out of Darius so there are at least the crews of the ships that take them places.

We guess that most or at least a very high percentage of the people extracted from Mesa using Hudine are supposed to get to Darius via an intricate set of cut-outs. That puts them on ships that at least enter the MalignWormholeNetwork (MWN). Wether those ships then transfer teh Houdini passengers to other, more tightly controlled ships to go "somewhere else" (Darius) is a question.

Presumabley there is some level of movement of the select Mannheim SDF/Navy into the MWN if for nothing more than rotate the ships keeping station on the non-Torch end of the "Killer wormhole" by th Torch system. What the average crew person know about the postings and location is unknown but probably is not what they are actually doing unless there is a very tightly woven and belevable cover story. Certainly the Alignment doesn't want very many Mannheim personal knowing (even eyeballing) the astroscape on the otherhend of either the secret wormhole they are guarding or the Malign end of the Torch wormhole.

Sure there is going to be traffic in and out of the MWN but it may- except for Alignment Military and things like Albrect's ships- be all handled by what amount to dedicated shuttle freighters who receive transshipped materials at a number of locations (with no crew contact with station crew) and move stuff. If they are shipping Cataphracts and other more modern Alignment design weaponry, they are probably handling it the same way or doing some sort of ship-ship transfer out at otherwise empty coordiantes which change regularly.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:Interesting. Darius has a population equal to Manticore's. If Darius gets into a long protracted war with the GA, I wonder what impact it will have on their population - considering 34 % of their population is a slave pool which they cannot draw from. A reality the US eventually found wasn't feasible.

I doubt that Darius considers their feminist music critics, Leisure Studies columnists, and transgressive graffiti artists as necessary for their economy as Manticore does.

Perhaps not. But you are missing my point. I'm not considering whether Darius directly considers slaves to be necessary for their economy. I'm considering whether the realities of a possiblly drawn out war with the GA might make them realize the error of having 35-50 % of their population ineligible to directly support the navy - available to their BuPers.

cthia wrote:Perhaps not. But you are missing my point. I'm not considering whether Darius directly considers slaves to be necessary for their economy. I'm considering whether the realities of a possiblly drawn out war with the GA might make them realize the error of having 35-50 % of their population ineligible to directly support the navy - available to their BuPers.

Why do you think that? You should look into the mamluks.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:Perhaps not. But you are missing my point. I'm not considering whether Darius directly considers slaves to be necessary for their economy. I'm considering whether the realities of a possiblly drawn out war with the GA might make them realize the error of having 35-50 % of their population ineligible to directly support the navy - available to their BuPers.

Why do you think that? You should look into the mamluks.

They may not be slaves in the manner we are used to thinking. It is quite possible they have a significant degree of free will - within boundaries.

It's those boundaries which are important, and how you create them. It's like the menu your order off of at a restaurant. You don't order lobster bisque at McDonalds - why, it's not on the menu. You take one look and order the Fish Fillet.

If you craft a society where people have sufficient options, perks and freedom within those options, they don't feel like a slave, because they decided to do what they are doing, and go where they are going. They might only have a job choice between sewer cleaner, sewer repair, septic repair, and waste treatment plant, but if you give them the option of a degree in waste management or septic engineering, they suddenly have the option to choose their path and to better themselves if they are able.

And really, how much different is that from how most of us live? we are given options, and we live within them.

Theemile wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:So that makes it more like 34% slaves. Though kzt has a point; even the non-skave residents aren't very free.

Jonathan, I don't get to correct you very often.

If you have a ~3.9 Billion population and just under 2 billion are "free", then just under 2 billion are slaves, or ~50% of the population.

Gah, you're right. Somehow I read "just under two billion" and did the math as if it was just under 3.

Thanks for correcting me.

cthia wrote:Interesting. Darius has a population equal to Manticore's. If Darius gets into a long protracted war with the GA, I wonder what impact it will have on their population - considering 34 % of their population is a slave pool which they cannot draw from. A reality the US eventually found wasn't feasible.

Incomplete equation there, by two standards. First, Darius isn't alone, so sizing it up against the entire GA is questionable. You should count the Renaissance Factor 11 also - and if the "long protracted war" happens, it'll be because the RF has expanded significantly beyond its starting dozen.

Second, the GA isn't the only target of the Alignment. They're out to conquer the League and everyone else. That means they've probably got a long-term plan to provide sufficient personnel for the time when they need a substantial military.