Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:I know that Honor was tac officer. I liked her so much as a tac officer that I was a bit sad when she vacated that spot. But was she ever ATO? - where she served as 'officer candidate training officer?'

She was JATO and ATO on HMS Manticore (which presumably means OCTO duties).

I don't understand, I always thought the JEWO's position was analogous to ATO?

No. The ATO is the TacO's second-in-command. Remember, Tactical is an entire department, with people doing offensive and defensive EW, missile defense, attack planning and what ever else needs doing. While it's certainly possible a JEWO could be ATO as well, I would think that the ATO post would go to the next most senior officer in the department by default.

The E wrote:

cthia wrote:I know that Honor was tac officer. I liked her so much as a tac officer that I was a bit sad when she vacated that spot. But was she ever ATO? - where she served as 'officer candidate training officer?'

She was JATO and ATO on HMS Manticore (which presumably means OCTO duties).

I don't understand, I always thought the JEWO's position was analogous to ATO?

No. The ATO is the TacO's second-in-command. Remember, Tactical is an entire department, with people doing offensive and defensive EW, missile defense, attack planning and what ever else needs doing. While it's certainly possible a JEWO could be ATO as well, I would think that the ATO post would go to the next most senior officer in the department by default.

Thanks E.

I often find the waters a bit murky regarding the many ship position's duties. I wish there was a legend that comprehensively lists each of the responsibilities. I guess it isn't practical on account of overlapping duties and the practice of one being an understudy of the other.

Yet, it's this position/understudy relationship that throws me. In some instances it's obvious. Such as Tac Officer and Assistant Tac Officer. By inference an "assistant" is an understudy. And "Junior", as in JEWO, is an understudy of EWO.

But there seems to be overlap between EWO and TacO.

Abigail slotted in both the ATO and OCTO positions aboard HMS Hexapuma. Naomi Kaplan was TacO.

During the heat of battle, what exactly are the ATO and TacO doing? I'm sure Abigail isn't twiddling her thumbs waiting for Naomi to die to take over.

And is the EWO qualified to slot in either TacO's position?

Then the question arises regarding the rank of officers in CIC who seemingly may have to slot in for them all.

There is this, but is rather vague in sub categories.
http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Ship_Positions

cthia wrote:I often find the waters a bit murky regarding the many ship position's duties. I wish there was a legend that comprehensively lists each of the responsibilities. I guess it isn't practical on account of overlapping duties and the practice of one being an understudy of the other.

An additional reason for the murkiness is that the RMN is in the process of splitting Tac and EW into separate specializations with the advent of Ghost Rider's EW improvements.

On Hexapuma everything is still under the Tactical Officer, but the ATO runs the Tactical Department and the EWO runs the EW department and, although they are closely coordinated in combat, they are essentially separate chains of command.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:I often find the waters a bit murky regarding the many ship position's duties. I wish there was a legend that comprehensively lists each of the responsibilities. I guess it isn't practical on account of overlapping duties and the practice of one being an understudy of the other.

An additional reason for the murkiness is that the RMN is in the process of splitting Tac and EW into separate specializations with the advent of Ghost Rider's EW improvements.

On Hexapuma everything is still under the Tactical Officer, but the ATO runs the Tactical Department and the EWO runs the EW department and, although they are closely coordinated in combat, they are essentially separate chains of command.

It would be like the modern day equivalent of the differences a SONAR officer and a gunnery officer both are in combat systems under the combat system officer. On a ship the officers wear multiple "hats" related to their jobs like our Navigator was also are Administration officer and also the legal officer.

Relax wrote:Your numbers are woefully bad for the percentage of the population that is a pro. They fly in the face of basic deomographics. Wherever you got your numbers is beating their own drum for their own purposes. Argue if you will about the "trade", but honestly, use common sense when posting numbers as anyone who wishes to disagree with you can easily start laughing and tune-out your message/argument when you start posting those absurd numbers for "how many there are".

Demographics has absolutely nothing to do regarding the demand of sex slaves per % population. Illegal prostititution, as well as illegal drugs, are immune to the equations normally associated with demographics. Unlike regulated prostitution. People - black, white, black&white, yellow, blue, green, young, old, rich, poor, famous, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist or non-denominational - all demand sex and drugs. Even in the desert. Matter of factly, these two enterprises, which are each immune to demographics, even support each other. Sex and drugs go hand in hand like cabbage and corned beef.

You're not looking at this clearly...

*The numbers are correct. Because of the facts, they MUST be correct. Unless you think that the entire industry's claim - even the claims of your government's task forces - against what has become the #2 largest criminal enterprise on the planet and the fastest growing, are also blowing smoke out the tail pipe.

To support that fact, let's employ some of that common sense you speak of and consider that the numbers MUST be true, by inference, regarding the alarming rate in which sex slaves are being introduced into the US's "sex business" population. Sex slaves, which are also prostitutes, are ever growing - literally being imported. The BunnyRanches aren't exactly growing by volume or expanding by area, to matter a drop in the bucket compared to the constant influx of trafficked (shipped) sex slaves/prostitutes. It's so simple to understand that even the treecats acting as a jury on it, wouldn't adjourn longer than 30 minutes (25 of that to be spent consuming celery) to deliberate on it. How much more common sense than that do you need? Any more than that, then it ain't common.

But I'll humor you anyways, with more of that common sense...

Add up the number of legal brothels. I'll trust the number in your head. (There's such a disparaging difference that it draws a dispassionate yawn instead of a worry.)

Now consider how many other dwellings there are in a country. Each a potential illegal front for prostitution or a dwelling of an illegal prostitute. No contest. Now consider this. The bylaws demand that legal prostitutes must operate in a legal brothel. Illegal prostitutes do not have this restriction. The entire world (I'd surmise even in the Vatican) is their oyster - the parking lots - hotels - parks - pools, restaurants, the kid's soccer games and impromptu casual encounters. They're as prolific as "cock"roaches (pardon the analogy to get a point across) running around out in the open. To be stomped on, sprayed, toyed with, drowned, raped, murdered, pimped and teased into boxes and caught in traps - just as roaches do.

Even crackhouses have become synonymous with prostitution. And I trust I won't have to point out how prolific they've become.

Only one state has a Nevada. Yet EVERY city or township, has a Stroll Ave and a Ho Lane and a "penny prostitute" motel. And everyone in town knows where these streets are. Even cabbies quickly learn these areas, to appease and accommodate a large percentage of their customers. Then there are always the popular hangouts. Bars. Commercial businesses. Seedy, run down motels and every Truck Stop everywhere in the country... etc. ... etc.

And the locations are mobile, spontaneous and able to relocate on a whim or upon police intervention. They are as flexible as the girls that frequent them. Close a BunnyRanch down for illegal activity and it's closed. Close an illegal dwelling, bordello or motel down for prostitution and it just changes address. Even some of the legal prostitutes are operating illegally (laying for the other team).

There are want ads, Craig's lists, Personals, the internet, chat rooms and the local car wash. You really think the Ranches are competing with that type of diversity, where the average John can ill-afford the cost in credits, or the time to book an appointment to fly to Vegas or find a girl in the local want ads and get back home to play dad, by 6:30 P.M., whereby its already 6:05, PM? Well, street prostitutes are as convenient as the local Five & Dime. And they always guarantee, and even offer discounts for "Quickies-R-Us".

Need yet more of that common sense?...

Let's equate the American cars in the US with the BunnyRanch prostitutes. The foreign cars - the sex slaves - are ever being shipped in (akin to being imported, on demand and at an alarming rate. UNREGULATED! shrugs). And as the auto industry goes, foreign imports are dominating the business even while being regulated. Now consider the unregulated import rate of the sex slaves mentioned earlier. And these imports don't have to pass safety standards, inspections or "emissions testing" as legalized prostitution.

And as the American auto industry, the foreign imports offer many more "standards" than the domestics - whereby these kinky fetishes may not even be offered as "options" by the domestics.

BunnyRanchers are not being imported, not that type. The prostitution of the 60's and what it once was is even a more fledgling business against the imports than American cars vs the foreigns. The BunnyRanchers don't multiply like sex slaves. In fact, those type enterprises in Nevada decreased from a total of 28 to 22 active Ranches. Did the other Ranches absorb the now unemployed girls from the six closed Ranches?


*In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the numbers are rather conservative. Quite so.

cthia wrote:

Relax wrote:Your numbers are woefully bad for the percentage of the population that is a pro. They fly in the face of basic deomographics. Wherever you got your numbers is beating their own drum for their own purposes. Argue if you will about the "trade", but honestly, use common sense when posting numbers as anyone who wishes to disagree with you can easily start laughing and tune-out your message/argument when you start posting those absurd numbers for "how many there are".

Demographics has absolutely nothing to do regarding the demand of sex slaves per % population. Illegal prostititution, as well as illegal drugs, are immune to the equations normally associated with demographics. Unlike regulated prostitution. People - black, white, black&white, yellow, blue, green, young, old, rich, poor, famous, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist or non-denominational - all demand sex and drugs. Even in the desert. Matter of factly, these two enterprises, which are each immune to demographics, even support each other. Sex and drugs go hand in hand like cabbage and corned beef.

You're not looking at this clearly...

*The numbers are correct. Because of the facts, they MUST be correct. Unless you think that the entire industry's claim - even the claims of your government's task forces - against what has become the #2 largest criminal enterprise on the planet and the fastest growing, are also blowing smoke out the tail pipe.

To support that fact, let's employ some of that common sense you speak of and consider that the numbers MUST be true, by inference, regarding the alarming rate in which sex slaves are being introduced into the US's "sex business" population. Sex slaves, which are also prostitutes, are ever growing - literally being imported. The BunnyRanches aren't exactly growing by volume or expanding by area, to matter a drop in the bucket compared to the constant influx of trafficked (shipped) sex slaves/prostitutes. It's so simple to understand that even the treecats acting as a jury on it, wouldn't adjourn longer than 30 minutes (25 of that to be spent consuming celery) to deliberate on it. How much more common sense than that do you need? Any more than that, then it ain't common.

But I'll humor you anyways, with more of that common sense...

Add up the number of legal brothels. I'll trust the number in your head. (There's such a disparaging difference that it draws a dispassionate yawn instead of a worry.)

Now consider how many other dwellings there are in a country. Each a potential illegal front for prostitution or a dwelling of an illegal prostitute. No contest. Now consider this. The bylaws demand that legal prostitutes must operate in a legal brothel. Illegal prostitutes do not have this restriction. The entire world (I'd surmise even in the Vatican) is their oyster - the parking lots - hotels - parks - pools, restaurants, the kid's soccer games and impromptu casual encounters. They're as prolific as "cock"roaches (pardon the analogy to get a point across) running around out in the open. To be stomped on, sprayed, toyed with, drowned, raped, murdered, pimped and teased into boxes and caught in traps - just as roaches do.

Even crackhouses have become synonymous with prostitution. And I trust I won't have to point out how prolific they've become.

Only one state has a Nevada. Yet EVERY city or township, has a Stroll Ave and a Ho Lane and a "penny prostitute" motel. And everyone in town knows where these streets are. Even cabbies quickly learn these areas, to appease and accommodate a large percentage of their customers. Then there are always the popular hangouts. Bars. Commercial businesses. Seedy, run down motels and every Truck Stop everywhere in the country... etc. ... etc.

And the locations are mobile, spontaneous and able to relocate on a whim or upon police intervention. They are as flexible as the girls that frequent them. Close a BunnyRanch down for illegal activity and it's closed. Close an illegal dwelling, bordello or motel down for prostitution and it just changes address. Even some of the legal prostitutes are operating illegally (laying for the other team).

There are want ads, Craig's lists, Personals, the internet, chat rooms and the local car wash. You really think the Ranches are competing with that type of diversity, where the average John can ill-afford the cost in credits, or the time to book an appointment to fly to Vegas or find a girl in the local want ads and get back home to play dad, by 6:30 P.M., whereby its already 6:05, PM? Well, street prostitutes are as convenient as the local Five & Dime. And they always guarantee, and even offer discounts for "Quickies-R-Us".

Need yet more of that common sense?...

Let's equate the American cars in the US with the BunnyRanch prostitutes. The foreign cars - the sex slaves - are ever being shipped in (akin to being imported, on demand and at an alarming rate. UNREGULATED! shrugs). And as the auto industry goes, foreign imports are dominating the business even while being regulated. Now consider the unregulated import rate of the sex slaves mentioned earlier. And these imports don't have to pass safety standards, inspections or "emissions testing" as legalized prostitution.

And as the American auto industry, the foreign imports offer many more "standards" than the domestics - whereby these kinky fetishes may not even be offered as "options" by the domestics.

BunnyRanchers are not being imported, not that type. The prostitution of the 60's and what it once was is even a more fledgling business against the imports than American cars vs the foreigns. The BunnyRanchers don't multiply like sex slaves. In fact, those type enterprises in Nevada decreased from a total of 28 to 22 active Ranches. Did the other Ranches absorb the now unemployed girls from the six closed Ranches?


*In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the numbers are rather conservative. Quite so.

Again, which all conspire to prove, by common sense inference, that the total number of professional prostitutes - per absolute total prostitute population - is as low as indicated and steadily declining.

IIRC, thus far we have entertained the idea that the GA will be able to detect the signatures of MAlign ships entering their systems. But we have not entertained if this system will be effective in detecting MAlign ships when taking the battle to Darius. As in, will the system not be small enough to be deployed from a ship - relegating it to GA system defense only?

And will the MAlign have other surprises lurking within their own Home system? Will they have developed other next generation tech that, to them, are logical progressions of their already insightful tech? As the many logical progressions realized from Apollo which caught the RHN with their pants down.

cthia wrote:IIRC, thus far we have entertained the idea that the GA will be able to detect the signatures of MAlign ships entering their systems.

There are two issues with regard to defending:

1: Detecting arrivals -- AKA Hyperfootprints.

2: Detecting and localizing MAlign ships (spider drives) once they are in a system.

cthia wrote:But we have not entertained if this system will be effective in detecting MAlign ships when taking the battle to Darius. As in, will the system not be small enough to be deployed from a ship - relegating it to GA system defense only?

Only the second type of detector would be needed for offensive action -- against Darius or any of the Renaissance Factor systems or anywhere else the MAlign might interfere with GA goals.

I've maintained from the beginning that, like RADAR, the Spider Drive detector and localizer is going to be derived from FTL Comm systems because someone will notice static in FTL Communications when a spider drive is active.

Logically that system isn't going to be a great deal bigger than the FTL comm systems it is derived from, so it will be employable on RDs and all ships, down to LACs. It actually may require being deployed on multiple platforms to triangulate and localize spider drive ships.

A possibility might be that only Apollo Broods (ACM+8XMk23) will be able to target spider drives by tracking the drive -- much as regular missiles/sensors rely on gravitic detection of impeller wedges to localize ships at long range.

cthia wrote:And will the MAlign have other surprises lurking within their own Home system? Will they have developed other next generation tech that, to them, are logical progressions of their already insightful tech? As the many logical progressions realized from Apollo which caught the RHN with their pants down.

It's possible, but I don't think it's going to happen. What might be encountered is bio-weapons or weaponized nanotech. Not advanced derivatives of Spider or streak drives.

Weird Harold wrote:I've maintained from the beginning that, like RADAR, the Spider Drive detector and localizer is going to be derived from FTL Comm systems because someone will notice static in FTL Communications when a spider drive is active.

Okay, that assumption is one you'd have to walk me through step by step. From textev, we know that FTL comms are unjammable; even the incredible amount of gravitic noise close to a thousand Dreadnaughts, thousands of escorts, thousands of LACs and hundreds of thousand missiles make isn't degrading the signals in any way that we know of.

As gravitic sources go, spider drive vessels are incredibly small in comparison to the weakest possible wedge (that is, after all, why their stealth works); if there was an interference between gravitic sources and FTL signal quality, we'd already know about it.

The E wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:I've maintained from the beginning that, like RADAR, the Spider Drive detector and localizer is going to be derived from FTL Comm systems because someone will notice static in FTL Communications when a spider drive is active.

Okay, that assumption is one you'd have to walk me through step by step. From textev, we know that FTL comms are unjammable; even the incredible amount of gravitic noise close to a thousand Dreadnaughts, thousands of escorts, thousands of LACs and hundreds of thousand missiles make isn't degrading the signals in any way that we know of.

As gravitic sources go, spider drive vessels are incredibly small in comparison to the weakest possible wedge (that is, after all, why their stealth works); if there was an interference between gravitic sources and FTL signal quality, we'd already know about it.

FTL Comms pass ripples along the Alpha Wall (or next higher hyper-wall). They logically must be able to filter out gross gravitic effects from drives in order to detect the smaller signals from FTL comms.

Spider Drives operate by grabbing the Alpha Wall and dragging the ships along. That should produce a different "signature" than Impeller Drives that don't interact directly with the Alpha Wall.

Since Spider Drives and FTL comms interact directly with the Alpha Wall, there should logically be some detectable interaction between the two at a level far below the gross effects of Drives and such that only affect the Alpha Wall indirectly.