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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:46 pm

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Shadow of Saganami Ch. 1
Admiral of the Red Lady Dame Honor Harrington, Steadholder and Duchess Harrington, sat beside Vice Admiral of the Red Dame Beatrice McDermott, Baroness Alb, and watched silently as the comfortable amphitheater seating of the huge holographic simulator filled up. It was an orderly audience. It was also quite a bit smaller than it would have been a few years earlier. There were fewer non-Manticoran uniforms out there, as well, and the vast majority of the foreign ones which remained were the blue-on-blue of the Grayson Space Navy. Several of the Star Kingdom's smaller allies had cut back sharply on the midshipmen they sent to Saganami Island, and there were no Erewhonese uniforms at all. Dame Honor managed—somehow—to maintain her serene expression as she remembered the tight-faced midshipmen who had withdrawn from their classes in a body when their government denounced its long-standing alliance with the Star Kingdom of Manticore.

She didn't blame the young men and women, many of whom had been her students during her own time on the Island, despite her personal sense of betrayal. Nor could she really blame their government. Part of her wished she could, but Dame Honor believed in being honest with herself, and it had not been Erewhon which betrayed the Star Kingdom's trust. It had been Manticore's own government.

I never understood why Erewhon would pull its students out of Saganami. Regardless of the wholeass on a High Ridge, Saganami remained the premiere academy in the galaxy. Why upset the student's standing up to that point and impede their forward progress. They had all but accepted their diploma and turned their tassels.

Textev seems to support that it was their own idea to withdraw and not the RMN's. What did that move do to the grad schedule of the current crop? They could have just allowed that current wave to properly graduate.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Potato   » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:53 pm

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Wait, seriously? You do not see any problem with having military personnel who just withdrew from your alliance and signed a mutual defense pact with a nation you are currently combating? Erewhon has zero standing to use Manticore's facilities once it left the Alliance.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by munroburton   » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:14 pm

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Potato wrote:Wait, seriously? You do not see any problem with having military personnel who just withdrew from your alliance and signed a mutual defense pact with a nation you are currently combating? Erewhon has zero standing to use Manticore's facilities once it left the Alliance.


Echoing this. Erewhon had pretty much delivered all the Alliance tech up to Buttercup over to Haven. And Maya, for that matter. Insisting on retaining access to Saganami island is a tad... boorish. They withdrew voluntarily, before High Ridge kicked them out.

As for the effect it had on graduation schedules - I suspect Janacek's screeching halt to new construction and dumping of legacy assets did far more to disrupt that than the Erewhonese withdrawal.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:45 pm

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Potato wrote:Wait, seriously? You do not see any problem with having military personnel who just withdrew from your alliance and signed a mutual defense pact with a nation you are currently combating? Erewhon has zero standing to use Manticore's facilities once it left the Alliance.

Yes, I do... see a problem from Manticoran perspective. But the RMN didn't kick them out. We can speculate that they would have kicked them out, but we don't know that for certain. I'm thinking that the RMN may have allowed them to go on and graduate - which is the feel I got from Harrington's intimations. Besides, the bulk of their studies was complete, and all that was left was the ceremony.

Another reason I hesitate to auto assume the RMN would have kicked them out is twofold...

1) It wasn't Erewhon who betrayed the RMN. The RMN betrayed Erewhon.
2) The same reason they asked Erewhon to referee the Summit. To gain brownie points and get back in their good graces - an attempt to mend fences.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:53 pm

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munroburton wrote:
Potato wrote:Wait, seriously? You do not see any problem with having military personnel who just withdrew from your alliance and signed a mutual defense pact with a nation you are currently combating? Erewhon has zero standing to use Manticore's facilities once it left the Alliance.


Echoing this. Erewhon had pretty much delivered all the Alliance tech up to Buttercup over to Haven. And Maya, for that matter. Insisting on retaining access to Saganami island is a tad... boorish. They withdrew voluntarily, before High Ridge kicked them out.

As for the effect it had on graduation schedules - I suspect Janacek's screeching halt to new construction and dumping of legacy assets did far more to disrupt that than the Erewhonese withdrawal.

I was talking about graduation schedules for the Erewhonese students. Textev gave us how it effected the RMN candidates - they graduated much earlier. Although the earlier grad dates being an effect of the war and not Erewhonese's withdrawal.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by saber964   » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:43 pm

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Has anyone thought to remember Erehwon might have its own naval academy much like Grayson's Isaiah MacKenzie Naval Academy which was closed until IIRC 1920 PD for upgrading and remodeling. So not graduating RMNA-SI wouldn't be that big a deal. The REN was probably sending the top 20 or 30% of it's middies to RMNA-SI.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:13 am

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saber964 wrote:Has anyone thought to remember Erehwon might have its own naval academy much like Grayson's Isaiah MacKenzie Naval Academy which was closed until IIRC 1920 PD for upgrading and remodeling. So not graduating RMNA-SI wouldn't be that big a deal. The REN was probably sending the top 20 or 30% of it's middies to RMNA-SI.

I'm not so sure I can board this bus.

Regardless of Grayson's or Erewhon's academy, Saganami Island remains the premiere academy in the galaxy. Since the students didn't formally graduate, they cannot officially claim Manticoran standard proficiency on their records. I would imagine that a genuine Saganami diploma in your records is career changing.

Therefore, formally, what goes on their records?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Duckk   » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:39 am

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You are placing way too much weight on this graduation thing.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:13 am

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Duckk wrote:You are placing way too much weight on this graduation thing.

How do you arrive at that supposition?

It's just idle curiosity.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by kzt   » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:15 am

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cthia wrote:
Duckk wrote:You are placing way too much weight on this graduation thing.

How do you arrive at that supposition?

It's just idle curiosity.

I've noted over time that you assign far to much weight to formal credentials.
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