Jonathan_S wrote:tlb wrote:We have discussed this before and there were people insistent that there must be manufacturing planet-side. I do not have evidence in either direction, but I am certain there were others who could quote from RFC that this was not the case. Neither were there other stations of a private nature that Oyster Bay had not impacted.
Please let us known if I remembered that incorrectly.
I also seem to recall those discussions about location of Manticore's industry (orbital vs planetary) as some very lengthy threads with lots of arguments with RFC explaining that for economic (most of the raw material came from space so only shipping down finished products was far more efficient) and environmental reasons almost all the heavy and even much of the light industry was orbital.
But I'm now guessing it predated my attempts to keep copies of RFC posts before they fell off the board. There is a post saved in the infodumps from April 13, 2010 - The impact of Oyster Bay on Manticoran and Grayson industry, and it was probably part of the arguments in those threads. (My oldest saved RFC post was from 2011 - and I believe the threads had likely petered out before then)
So despite all the keywords I could think of, and then skimming a fair bit of the cache, the only thing I really found about orbital industry in my cache of RFC posts was this tidbit from 2018Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:55 pm Re: SPOILER end of the MA wrote:No, you are missing the point that the majority of industry, even in Verge systems, is located in space and that means infrastructure in their asteroid belt. In the Honorverse, planet-based industry is the exception, although a forward thinking systems with strategic concerns will build some of it at the bottom of a gravity well to give them a cushion in the event of a Yawata Strike scenario.
I did find a post from 2015 reminding folks that while Blackbird yards got destroyed, and with it most Grayson's primary modern industrial node, the older orbital industry in Grayson orbit survived; so they didn't take as large a hit to their industrial capacity as Manticore did.
But couldn't find any of the rest of his posts about orbital vs planetside industry that I believe did form part of what I recall as some quite lengthy threads.
And also - I blame you bothfor flashbacks to various endless arguments over the last 9 years I got from skimming through that cache; for example about a return of frigates or special scout frigates back in 2011/2012 - so, so, many posts from RFC explaining why that wasn't going to happen and wasn't actually practical.
It is simply difficult to fathom. I can certainly understand the move to a greener planet less toxic emissions and planet poisoning industries. But that's putting all of your eggs in one basket. In one fell swoop, ALL of your industry can be destroyed. If that is the case, why is just the ability to build ships the only concern? Who are making toilets, roofing equipment, batteries, watches, furniture, windows, toasters, ovens, microwaves, refrigerators, toys . . .
Is Manticore importing all of those goods now?
Plus! As I've already mentioned. That's a huge percentage of your population in space every single hour of every single day. During war, evacuation of that population has to be an immense proposition and very annoying. Heck, the tactic of popping in and out of a system's periphery just to annoy them like Honor did simply must initiate an evacuation to be safe and responsible. And I can't see everyone being evacuated. 20% of Americans are in industry. If it is the same (but it's probably significantly higher) on Manticore whose population is, what, 3.8B, that's over 750M people needing evacuation during each battle or rumor or threat of battle. During war, production probably simply disappears from stops and starts.
A lot of the population should have been lost during Oyster Bay!
P.S. What's friggin wrong with friggin frigates? I'd think poorer planets would have to crawl before they can walk.
At any rate, frigs should be sent to the breakers. The forum's dead letter pastures for dead horses.