Genies transferred

Namlessfly said "Runsforcelery started it, but I agree that this debate should be taken to the politics forum. There I can make the argument that since guns are used in almost zero rapes in the US, the historically low rape rates in other countries must be the result of strict penis control. What? Rape rates are surging to an appalling level in certain Scandanavian countries, particularly Sweden? Oh My! But the rapist are almost all muslim immigrants which the Swedish governing class refuses to acknowledge because it is politically incorrect?"

Then he didn't take it here so I have. I have just spent a fruitless time trying to get reliable statistics regarding rape in various countries, and the use of firearms in these but no statistics here are reliable. An example is that far and away the country with the lowest reported incident of rape is Egypt, which as anyone who knows the country would agree is absurd. On another side I agree that Sweden and other Scandinavian countries have had much higher rates reported in recent years, yet on analysis this is caused by a wider range of the definition of rape to include ridiculous claims like "I agreed at the time and enjoyed it, but months later decided that I no longer agree", or penile penetration (extremely unpleasant if uninvited but not in the same ball park as the traditional real nasty).
FBI figures show that 60% of rapes in the US are unreported, but that still leaves 89,000 per year. On their website they specifically mention that they haven't compiled statistics on how many had a gun involved, but have lumped rape in with aggravated assaults which have firearms involved in 21.2% of cases. Whatever, it is certainly not "almost zero" of cases. Why this topic was introduced into a discussion of genies in the Honorverse is unclear, possibly to further an agenda of racist Muslim bashing?

On the actual original topic, it should be mentioned that humanity has engaged in genetic tweaking for many thousands of years, albeit by slower means than can be accessed now. Look at the wolf, and the dog breeds derived from them. A modern race horse and the original first ponies. Modern grains and the original wild grasses. We have also modified ourselves, by voluntary selective breeding involving what various regions regard as sexually attractive traits.

As to the future success of specific breeding programs in humans, look to the descendants of historically acknowledged geniuses. How many are famous? Some do succeed in the same field but not many. You can breed for broad brush traits but genius is generally too subtle to capture.

I read a report in a recent magazine:
Since WW2 the Russians have been trying to breed a
domesticated fox. After only five generations,
they are seeing signs of success.

HTM

Daryl wrote:[snip - htm]
On the actual original topic, it should be mentioned that humanity has engaged in genetic tweaking for many thousands of years, albeit by slower means than can be accessed now. Look at the wolf, and the dog breeds derived from them. A modern race horse and the original first ponies. Modern grains and the original wild grasses. We have also modified ourselves, by voluntary selective breeding involving what various regions regard as sexually attractive traits.
[snip - htm]

[quote="Howard T. Map-addict"]I read a report in a recent magazine:
Since WW2 the Russians have been trying to breed a
domesticated fox. After only five generations,
they are seeing signs of success.

HTM

A couple of months ago, I saw a NOVA show on this program. They have managed to breed a much more docile fox that actually likes contact with humans. They also had the side result of a new coat color that breeds true that they believe is tied to the same genes that control aggression. Research is still ongoing.

In decades past (1980s and earlier) the FBI did keep statistics on gun use by rapists. It was never more than 20%. The FBI also used to keep statistics on Victim/Offender relationship by race but ceased because the extremely high incidence of Black on White rape was not PC. (don not argue with me on this. I have the UCRs going back to the. 1950s in my private library). Various criminal victimization surveys confirm that rapists seldom use guns. The more recent FBI UCRs do have data on weapons used in murder by circumstance. Only about 1/8 of rape victims who are murdered are killed with guns, so my "almost zero" comment was reasonable. Similar statistics on guns used apply to murders of young children and elderly victims. The US has a very high homicide rate because we have an extremely violent subculture the commits most of the murders, not because we have lots of guns.

I agree with the problem of cultural attitudes affecting reporting of crime. Muslim societies are notorious for discouraging women from reporting rape. In the more extreme, Sharia compliant cultures, it is suicidal. Even in "enlightened" societies, it is disadvantageous for a woman to report rape as it usually will jeopardize a marriage or serious relationship.

Daryl wrote:Namlessfly said "Runsforcelery started it, but I agree that this debate should be taken to the politics forum. There I can make the argument that since guns are used in almost zero rapes in the US, the historically low rape rates in other countries must be the result of strict penis control. What? Rape rates are surging to an appalling level in certain Scandanavian countries, particularly Sweden? Oh My! But the rapist are almost all muslim immigrants which the Swedish governing class refuses to acknowledge because it is politically incorrect?"

Then he didn't take it here so I have. I have just spent a fruitless time trying to get reliable statistics regarding rape in various countries, and the use of firearms in these but no statistics here are reliable. An example is that far and away the country with the lowest reported incident of rape is Egypt, which as anyone who knows the country would agree is absurd. On another side I agree that Sweden and other Scandinavian countries have had much higher rates reported in recent years, yet on analysis this is caused by a wider range of the definition of rape to include ridiculous claims like "I agreed at the time and enjoyed it, but months later decided that I no longer agree", or penile penetration (extremely unpleasant if uninvited but not in the same ball park as the traditional real nasty).
FBI figures show that 60% of rapes in the US are unreported, but that still leaves 89,000 per year. On their website they specifically mention that they haven't compiled statistics on how many had a gun involved, but have lumped rape in with aggravated assaults which have firearms involved in 21.2% of cases. Whatever, it is certainly not "almost zero" of cases. Why this topic was introduced into a discussion of genies in the Honorverse is unclear, possibly to further an agenda of racist Muslim bashing?

On the actual original topic, it should be mentioned that humanity has engaged in genetic tweaking for many thousands of years, albeit by slower means than can be accessed now. Look at the wolf, and the dog breeds derived from them. A modern race horse and the original first ponies. Modern grains and the original wild grasses. We have also modified ourselves, by voluntary selective breeding involving what various regions regard as sexually attractive traits.

As to the future success of specific breeding programs in humans, look to the descendants of historically acknowledged geniuses. How many are famous? Some do succeed in the same field but not many. You can breed for broad brush traits but genius is generally too subtle to capture.

namelessfly wrote:<<SNIP>>
I agree with the problem of cultural attitudes affecting reporting of crime. Muslim societies are notorious for discouraging women from reporting rape. In the more extreme, Sharia compliant cultures, it is suicidal. Even in "enlightened" societies, it is disadvantageous for a woman to report rape as it usually will jeopardize a marriage or serious relationship.
<<SNIP>>

This problem is not just common among Muslim cultures. Until very recently (within the last decade) it was a problem in most countries. The social stigma attached to rape affected women everywhere. While the shift in the last decade has reduced that stigma somewhat, examples of the consequences for the woman involved are all around us. The lack of jail time or any other serious form of punishment for rapists among the "younger generation" have generated world-wide responses in a couple of recent cases. In one case, a young girl who had an "affair" with her teacher was hounded by both classmates and adults to the point that she committed suicide. The teacher received a 30 day jail term.

My wife has relatives who live in Sweden. That country has become a nightmare for Swedish women. The PC cooking of the statistics by the self appointed elites to avoid "racist Muslim bashing" is just as reprehensible as the often lethal rapes.

Daryl wrote:Namlessfly said "Runsforcelery started it, but I agree that this debate should be taken to the politics forum. There I can make the argument that since guns are used in almost zero rapes in the US, the historically low rape rates in other countries must be the result of strict penis control. What? Rape rates are surging to an appalling level in certain Scandanavian countries, particularly Sweden? Oh My! But the rapist are almost all muslim immigrants which the Swedish governing class refuses to acknowledge because it is politically incorrect?"

Then he didn't take it here so I have. I have just spent a fruitless time trying to get reliable statistics regarding rape in various countries, and the use of firearms in these but no statistics here are reliable. An example is that far and away the country with the lowest reported incident of rape is Egypt, which as anyone who knows the country would agree is absurd. On another side I agree that Sweden and other Scandinavian countries have had much higher rates reported in recent years, yet on analysis this is caused by a wider range of the definition of rape to include ridiculous claims like "I agreed at the time and enjoyed it, but months later decided that I no longer agree", or penile penetration (extremely unpleasant if uninvited but not in the same ball park as the traditional real nasty).
FBI figures show that 60% of rapes in the US are unreported, but that still leaves 89,000 per year. On their website they specifically mention that they haven't compiled statistics on how many had a gun involved, but have lumped rape in with aggravated assaults which have firearms involved in 21.2% of cases. Whatever, it is certainly not "almost zero" of cases. Why this topic was introduced into a discussion of genies in the Honorverse is unclear, possibly to further an agenda of racist Muslim bashing?

On the actual original topic, it should be mentioned that humanity has engaged in genetic tweaking for many thousands of years, albeit by slower means than can be accessed now. Look at the wolf, and the dog breeds derived from them. A modern race horse and the original first ponies. Modern grains and the original wild grasses. We have also modified ourselves, by voluntary selective breeding involving what various regions regard as sexually attractive traits.

As to the future success of specific breeding programs in humans, look to the descendants of historically acknowledged geniuses. How many are famous? Some do succeed in the same field but not many. You can breed for broad brush traits but genius is generally too subtle to capture.

I was attempting to make the point that rape victims are stigmatized in all societies, not just Muslim societies. The problem is most extreme when the victims are adolescence and their rapist is a much older adult in a position of authority over them and the community refuses to hold the rapist accountable. Portland Oregon is an extreme example where after Mayor Neil Goldschmidit "affair" with his 13 year old baby sitter and Mayor "Sodomy Sam" Adams seduced an underage intern, being a child molester is a preequisit to hold office.

KNick wrote:

namelessfly wrote:<<SNIP>>
I agree with the problem of cultural attitudes affecting reporting of crime. Muslim societies are notorious for discouraging women from reporting rape. In the more extreme, Sharia compliant cultures, it is suicidal. Even in "enlightened" societies, it is disadvantageous for a woman to report rape as it usually will jeopardize a marriage or serious relationship.
<<SNIP>>

This problem is not just common among Muslim cultures. Until very recently (within the last decade) it was a problem in most countries. The social stigma attached to rape affected women everywhere. While the shift in the last decade has reduced that stigma somewhat, examples of the consequences for the woman involved are all around us. The lack of jail time or any other serious form of punishment for rapists among the "younger generation" have generated world-wide responses in a couple of recent cases. In one case, a young girl who had an "affair" with her teacher was hounded by both classmates and adults to the point that she committed suicide. The teacher received a 30 day jail term.

It was in a Nat geo from last year as well, IIRC. And the coat colour thing was found to be linked to domestication in that some of the genes that helped make the foxes more friendly also seemed to be linked to coat colour, so theres actually a visual indicator of the level of domesticatedness.

KNick wrote:

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:I read a report in a recent magazine:
Since WW2 the Russians have been trying to breed a
domesticated fox. After only five generations,
they are seeing signs of success.

HTM

A couple of months ago, I saw a NOVA show on this program. They have managed to breed a much more docile fox that actually likes contact with humans. They also had the side result of a new coat color that breeds true that they believe is tied to the same genes that control aggression. Research is still ongoing.