Guns, Guns Guns

thinkstoomuch wrote:

Eyal wrote:I submit that it a significant percentage opens the door with a drawn weapon (note - being armed would not be enough, since MR Crossbow is ready to fire) your society already has significant problems (as in you might be living in Mad Max World).

What you mean a game where you attack random people on the street?

Not sure that this civilization thing is all that it is cracked up to be.

Have fun,
T2M

At least based on Wikipedia, it seems to be a relative handful of cases; and it's not the scenario we were discussing anyway.
. So I'll ask directly: do you think the situation in the US is such that it would be considered reasonable to answer the door with a drawn firearm?

So I'll ask directly: do you think the situation in the US is such that it would be considered reasonable to answer the door with a drawn firearm?

Depends on where you live. In most places no. But there are parts of the country where is would be prudent. And no, I don't answer the door routinely with a drawn firearm.

biochem wrote:

So I'll ask directly: do you think the situation in the US is such that it would be considered reasonable to answer the door with a drawn firearm?

Depends on where you live. In most places no. But there are parts of the country where is would be prudent. And no, I don't answer the door routinely with a drawn firearm.

Not really. Those areas that have the greatest crime also have the strictest gun control laws. Legal access to guns is very difficult to secure. In those circumstances prudence would dictate making sure who is outside through the peephole first. If uncertain, conduct what business as is necessary through the closed door.

Having an illegal gun means jail if the police find out and so routinely answering the door armed would elicit the police to visit in short order. If the police take their time coming, criminals would show up trying to steal the gun.

You were talking a Mad Max World. Have you actually watched the Mad Max movie? Not Road Warrior not the other follow ons but the first movie in the series. The one where Max's knee was actually trashed. The one with the hacksaw, handcuffs and a burning car.

It was sort of a sick humor type comment that obviously I communicated poorly. But just couldn't see putting a smiley on that statement.

By the way that first movie was a horror movie to me. But I have too vivid an imagination some times. <shrug> Might be part of the reason we went from "peace" officer to "law" enforcement officer which in my mind are two totally unrelated things.

My apologies if I offended but it seemed on topic in light of the post I was responding to.

T2M

Edited related to unrelated as I typed 180 out of what I meant to say.

Eyal wrote:At least based on Wikipedia, it seems to be a relative handful of cases; and it's not the scenario we were discussing anyway.
. So I'll ask directly: do you think the situation in the US is such that it would be considered reasonable to answer the door with a drawn firearm?

Eyal wrote:
At least based on Wikipedia, it seems to be a relative handful of cases; and it's not the scenario we were discussing anyway.
. So I'll ask directly: do you think the situation in the US is such that it would be considered reasonable to answer the door with a drawn firearm?

The situation in some areas in the US is bad enough that it would be prudent to have a drawn firearm when answering the door to a stranger. As others have pointed out, these areas are precisely the jurisdictions that have strict gun guntrol laws that make being armed difficult and dangerous.

Actually, the first Mad Max is the only one I've seen in its entirety (beyond that I saw a few bits of Thunderdome). I apologize if I offended or distressed you - I would have used "distopyia" instead if my brain hadn't blanked on the word (until about two hours after I posted)

thinkstoomuch wrote:You were talking a Mad Max World. Have you actually watched the Mad Max movie? Not Road Warrior not the other follow ons but the first movie in the series. The one where Max's knee was actually trashed. The one with the hacksaw, handcuffs and a burning car.

It was sort of a sick humor type comment that obviously I communicated poorly. But just couldn't see putting a smiley on that statement.

By the way that first movie was a horror movie to me. But I have too vivid an imagination some times. <shrug> Might be part of the reason we went from "peace" officer to "law" enforcement officer which in my mind are two totally unrelated things.

My apologies if I offended but it seemed on topic in light of the post I was responding to.

T2M

Edited related to unrelated as I typed 180 out of what I meant to say.

Eyal wrote:At least based on Wikipedia, it seems to be a relative handful of cases; and it's not the scenario we were discussing anyway.
. So I'll ask directly: do you think the situation in the US is such that it would be considered reasonable to answer the door with a drawn firearm?

Your apologies are not needed. The thought is appreciated.

That is unusual in my experience with people. I was letting that past color my thoughts and perceptions.

Just punching someone out for no good reason is evidence of dystopia (and Mad Max). Again in my opinion.

Of course we have no clue which applies to the crossbow incident and regards to the actual topic. Was it random? Did the guy killed fire the one with the weapon? Was it just a case of this guy needed killing?

The real lesson the original poster(to get back on topic) was saying is, to my mind, sure take all the guns people will still find a may to kill people.

Well also that it wasn't in fact Colt who made a 100 pound woman and a 200 pound man equal. He just made it easier. I guess we could go back to an Atlatl. And the like.

A little bit more on the whole thing from my view.

Enjoy,
T2M

PS I was going to PM this until I released I owed a public apology for my poor assumptions.

PPS Definition of Dystopia : an imaginary place where people lead dehumanized and often fearful lives
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dystopia
Not sure if it means much but it is another one of them slippery concepts that means different things to different people.

Eyal wrote:Actually, the first Mad Max is the only one I've seen in its entirety (beyond that I saw a few bits of Thunderdome). I apologize if I offended or distressed you - I would have used "distopyia" instead if my brain hadn't blanked on the word (until about two hours after I posted)

England is funny though. You can't legally have a pistol or rifle, unless in the services, but you can have a shotgun of any kind. My Dad if he had stayed in England longer, considered moving to Wales on a beach front property. (Not all that warm, but good). He was checking and as long as the shotgun had a smooth barrel and could fire shotgun pellets it was legal. As I had .45 calibre bird shot rounds he was going to get a smooth bore full auto Uzi. Perfectly legal there. Crazy too.

Lord Skimper wrote:England is funny though. You can't legally have a pistol or rifle, unless in the services, but you can have a shotgun of any kind. My Dad if he had stayed in England longer, considered moving to Wales on a beach front property. (Not all that warm, but good). He was checking and as long as the shotgun had a smooth barrel and could fire shotgun pellets it was legal. As I had .45 calibre bird shot rounds he was going to get a smooth bore full auto Uzi. Perfectly legal there. Crazy too.

The gun control debate in the US has in recent years focused on military caliber and style "Assault Weapons" rather than handguns. However; FBI data shows that homicides with rifles of any type or caliber accounted for a tiny fraction of homicides and was declining drastically until Clinton passed his "Assault Weapon" ban. In all the debate, little mention was made of the relative lethality of shotguns vs "Assault Rifles.". Shot placement is paramount, but the .223 is not particularly lethal and the steel core 7.62 ammo that Clinton banned was only 25% lethal. In comparison, wounds from 12 gauge shotguns are about 75% lethal. Of course there area amazing cases of survival. Back in the 1990s a Portland police office wounded his wife in an obscenely brutal manner when he allegedly forgot to unload his shotgun before sodomizing his wife with it. She required 50 units of blood, lost a leg, needed months of surgeries, but she survived. Another Portland cop "accidentally" loaded buckshot rather than "Less Lethal" beanbag rounds in his shotgun then shot a subject in the butt at Contact range. Of course the beanbag rounds should not be used at ranges closer than 30 feet to be reasonably "safe". (The fatality rate for this ammo is significant which makes it's frequent use as a pain compliance weapon again uncooperative but not dangerous subjects irresponsible.

The thing that gets me though, apart from states trying to make it easier to loose track of lefal guns, is why any civilian would need an assault style weapon in the first place.