Country Building 101

He who finds people to be stupid,
and then kills them for it,
will continue to find people to be stupid,
and kill them.

Going to work for such a killer, is stupid.
Kill them for it!

HTM

PS I just saw that that old American soldier,
who during the Korean War ran South spies in the North,
and who recently went to North Korea as a *tourist,*
and was arrested there for what he did in the war, (DUH!)
has now been released after he appologized.
How 'bout that! HTM

namelessfly wrote:

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Why would people voluntarily go to serve a
ruler who has nuked his first population?

And then there are all the places that are
now too radioactive to be useful.

PHL

namelessfly wrote:
Nuke the population then encourage immigration of skilled and educated people.

Opportunity and the understanding that stupidity or militancy will not be tolerated will attract immigrants.


This is why God gave us Neutron bombs.

Actually; having nukes immunized you from regime change by the US.

This is why Kim Jong Il (who has NODONG missiles) is still in power. He learned from the US taking out Saddam. Daffy Gaddaffy made a deal to give up his WMD and what was his reward? Getting sodomized with a bayonet!

pokermind wrote:Hmm, using Weapons Of Mass Destruction against your own population gets you put on top of the USA Regime change list and, using nukes means right the hell now


Poker

I was not advocating that the US nuke the populations of oil rich countries. I was advocating that the rulers of the oil rich countries would nuke their own populations.

Now that Obama has surrendered to Iran's demands to have nuclear weapons, the Pakistanis are opening their nuclear weapons bizarre to Gulf States.

Those who pay attention now understand why Gov Palin choked on the Bush Doctrin question. She is very much a neoisolationist who advocates domestic energy development as an alternative to foreign intervention to secure oil.[/quote][/quote]

pokermind wrote:Hmm fly the Islamists have Pakistan and its nukes. Using tramp steamers deliver atomic weapons to sea port cities. Blam,San Diego, Los Angles, Seattle, San Francisco, Boston, New York, Norfolk, Charleston, Mobile, New Orleans and, Huston could be gone with the Nuclear Wind. Not to mention using the river systems thus Portland, Chicago and, Detroit could join the target list. With nuclear weapon proliferation MAD still applies. Remember some of these people wear clothing by DuPont to kill enemies

Poker

I have always believed that there is nothing wrong with Oregon that nuking Portland would not cure.

Another blithering post that probably doesn't make any sense.

I have been thinking about this one and what makes a "country a country" topics for a while now. Cauldron of Ghosts, A Call to Duty and the reissue of the first two Empire of Man novels, bunch of other stuff factor in.

I think the first thing that has to happen before any of the below is a unifying set of ideals. The next thing is probably the removal of perceived corruption in the political process.

You have to set up conditions for any of your stuff to work. Which is nigh impossible in the real world. Why should I as a citizen/subject give up this item or that item for the greater good. Any country is a nebulous concept, feeding my family is reality. The belief that if I give up money/labor now for a better future for my kids is a really hard sell. I think the real reason it worked for the US is we took the stuff we needed from the natives because of a more efficient society. Them robber barons may have gotten rich in the process but they made settlement of the American west a reality that the mountain man or rancher couldn't much better than wagon trains ever could. Needed to get those land rush folks involved. 160 acres of free land for the taking is a powerful incentive.

I have not a clue how to do it. And stay alive in the process.

I am just not that smart. Though Turkey since the WWI might offer some insight, from what I understand, haven't really researched it.

Thank you for many hours of scattered brain contemplation,
T2M

biochem wrote:Some of the recent posts regarding Saudi Arabia got me thinking. If you were the dictator of an oil rich 3rd world country how would you spend your trillions to build the country into a first world country that would remain a first world country when the oil runs out in 100 years?

I would start with:

1. Small business loans. The middle class is the rock of a first world economy and the first thing to do is to start building it one little business at a time.

2. Infrastructure. Start build very high quality infrastructure. Build to last centuries if possible. Build roads, railroads, utilities, cell phone networks. Infrastructure is the skeleton that the businesses use to grow and it is crucial to developing a first world economy.

3. Education. Build an education system sufficient to populate new jobs being created. But don't overdo it otherwise you have a bunch of unemployed college grads (like Egypt) who are very mad at being unable to find the jobs they were promised.

4. Legal structure for capitalism. You need rules regarding patents, property rights, fraud laws, antitrust laws etc. Capitalism needs rules to function well otherwise it descends into anarchy. But too many rules is a burden on the economy. So I would take advantage of the fact that I'm starting from scratch to have my legal experts pick the rules that are working the best around the world and establish the absolute minimum of regulation that is required for capitalism to function.

Other ideas?

You have to set up conditions for any of your stuff to work. Which is nigh impossible in the real world. Why should I as a citizen/subject give up this item or that item for the greater good. Any country is a nebulous concept, feeding my family is reality. The belief that if I give up money/labor now for a better future for my kids is a really hard sell.

It is definitely much easier said than done. However it CAN be done! Looking at history there are many countries with many different cultures that have managed this, so we have empirical proof that it is possible. Easy no. There are a lot more failures and false starts than successes. So odds of success are not high, but they are not zero either.

This is a bit tangential but have you looked into tidal power generation at all?

It's been several years since I heard anything but I do know that there were some very promising designs being developed at Oregon State University.

namelessfly wrote:I am amazed to find myself somewhat in agreement regarding renewables.

Solar power is far more plausible in the middle East than in Europe or America for obvious reasons.

The oil and more recently natural gas are a finite resource that can earn you foreign exchange.

For this reason, I do not reject the idea of Iran having nuclear power or even enrichment capability, just high level enrichment or Plutonium production reactors.

Spacekiwi wrote:Agreed. domestic renewables allowing selling more, and mean that when the oil runs out or becomes uneconomic to collect compared to others, you have guaranteed power for your people.

I too would invest in becoming a high tech research haven, to try and ensure that when people start buying oil replacement tech, im getting a cut of that. I wouldnt rely on oil forever, but have a succession plan to ensure money keeps coming in no matter what others do. I'd also use the high tech emphasis to persuade large companies to base their middle eastern operations in my country, giving the US and EU a reason to help keep my country stable with me in charge, as a revolution would damage the companies and the multinationals from overseas would end up in danger.

If I were building a country, infrastructure and education would both be very important. Encouraging people to work for their own betterment would also be important. Recruiting college kids who are studying engineering for internships on the infrastructure improvement projects would be a good start and provide the groundwork for their future careers. Additionally, kids from the city can be recruited to work on the infrastructure projects as laborers. Building railroads and highways through government owned land can be utilized exactly as the American government did in the west; by alternating tracts of land between privately owned and publicly owned plots, the government can offer incentives for domestic companies to invest in building these railroads and highways in exchange for which these domestic companies would receive tracts of land which they can then sell or develop for their own profit as well as to pay the costs of building highways. My education system would encourage youth to explore different skill sets and ultimately prepare them for a career whether it’s a career that requires college or it’s a career that only requires a trade school education. Building roads and highways out into the desert or other barren parts of the country with minimal government funding but what little funding there is will be dependent upon successful completion of the infrastructure project in question. These projects would provide a temporary economic boom to the regions in which they are being built. Long-term economic gains will hopefully be found in most of these areas long after the initial construction of the infrastructure itself has been completed. Natural resource development, whether it be agricultural, mineral or hydrological, should provide the resources for a strong manufacturing base. Encouraging students to study abroad during their university years will help provide a network that will facilitate overseas trade. An airtight but abbreviated regulatory code should be enacted to rein in and at the same time facilitate a free market economic system while limiting excessive abuses.

When sports stars and actors receive incomes a hundred times greater than scientists and engineers it is difficult to organise country building.

Daryl wrote:When sports stars and actors receive incomes a hundred times greater than scientists and engineers it is difficult to organise country building.

It is a symptom of having a free market on labor which does not allow the government to dictate wages.

This allows doctors to make more money than garbage collectors.

It also allows the really innovative entrepNauerssuch as Bill Gates and Steve Jobstobecome. Billionaires.

I don't think Daryl was complaining about just US celebrities. The Aussies have exactly the same situation. What Greg Norman made as a golfer or Rod Laver as a tennis star or Nicole Kidman as a movie star is a similar situation to what we have here. Why A-Rod could make more in a year as a baseball player than the entire staff at the National Institute of Health is a natural valid question.