"King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

Most of the engine is below the water line add a little armor if you are paranoid.

Dilandu wrote:

Most of the engine is below the water line add a little armor if you are paranoid.

I'm not paranoid, I'm rational. You put the great weight on the ship rear for nothing. The keel will feel meaningless stress. The machinery would be cramped extremely. You would be forced to build a pretty long steam pipes and to transport the coal for more than a half of ship length.

And adding armor - for what reason? We have a lot of space inside the citadel for that!

This is not good. Not good at all, believe me.

pokermind wrote:

Engine room KH VII four cylinder Uni-flow triple expansion engine, two HP cylinders cranks set ninety degrees allow starts with no dead spots where you would need jacking gear to turn the shaft by hand. exhaust from HP cylinders goes into blue receiver tank to power mid pressure cylinder, exhaust from mid pressure cylinder goes into yellow receiver tank to the Low pressure cylinder. The exhaust goes in green pipe down to the condenser in the bilge green line going up is heading for the vacuum pump. Larger diameter pipe on bottom collects condensate separating from vacuum exhaust steam.

Space above for crane to lift massive cylinder heads. Information on various marine steam engines here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_steam_engine and the uniflow type here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniflow_steam_engine

Poker

pokermind wrote:You are going to run the shafts through the rear magazine? Yah smoke a bearing in there and a big boom! drop a shell on the rotating shaft for even more excitement! Most of the engine is below the water line add a little armor if you are paranoid.

Poker

Dilandu wrote:No way! The engine MUST be inside the citadel, or for what reason you have a armored belt at all?


No one real ironclad or battleships ever have engines in the rear! One good shot, and all the engine would be out! And they are heavy, real heavy.

The engine must be in the citadel.

P.S. And if i remember correctly, the RFC stated that the berbettes go through the hull down to the armoured deck.

pokermind wrote:OK here is a rough with engines centrally located:



Poker

RFC wrote:
Delthak II – class broadside ironclad gunboat

Dimensions:
Length (waterline): 160’
Length (overall): 160’
Beam: 40’
Draft (normal): 10’
Draft (full): 10’3”

Armament:
22 x 6”/45 M895 BL guns 3 x 11 x 3 (115-pound AP shell; 200/gun)
Weight of broadside (13 guns): 1,495 pounds
Weight fore or aft (3 guns): 345 pounds

Armor:
Casemate: thickness= 3”; length = 146’; height = 14’; inclined 16˚
Freeboard fore & aft: thickness=3”; length = 14’; height = 4’
Casemate roof/decks: 1”
Conning tower: 6” (no slope)

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, double-expansion engines, direct drive, 2 shafts, 45 sdp (1,147 shp) = 14 knots (12.2 Old Earth knots)
Range 1,800nm at 9.5 knots (8.25 Old Earth knots)
Range 3,500 nm at 5.7 knots (5 Old Earth knots)
Bunker (normal): 59 tons
Bunker (max displacement): 115 tons

Complement: 158

Cost: CM 168,000

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Guns: 281 tons, 18.4 %
Armor: 286 tons, 18.7 %
Machinery: 166 tons, 10.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 448 tons, 29.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 348 tons, 22.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (penetrating hits to sink ship): 17 x 6”/45
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.81
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 9.2 seconds
Steadiness as gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck , a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.836 / 0.838
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.6 knots (12.65 Old Earth knots)s
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 4.00 ft
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.00 ft
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 10.00 ft
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 4.00 ft
- Average: 8.80 ft
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.7 %
Waterplane Area: 5,823 Square feet
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 4.66
- Overall: 1.19
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

pokermind wrote:Hey RFC I have some questions about the Delthak IIs?

The Delthak IIs the broad side armament has 22 6" / 45s that have tubes 22.5'. OK to get across the ocean you have to bring the cannons inboard to close and seal the shutters right? Well the ships are 40' wide so the gun must cross the center to be brought inboard. They must be secured or you get a loose cannon. Thus they cannot be in line but must be staggered IE:

| | | | | | | | | | |
.| | | | | | | | | | |

So how will these heavy guns be moved and secured carriage on rails?

The 3 feet of free-board fore and aft, does this mean 3' on just the bow and three feet of the casement is under water or does the run all the free-board run all the way way around.

Poker

Also what are the 11" guns? a tail pinned mount with one in the center of the casement to fire on either side and the others in the curved ends of the casement? They can't be longer than 11" /20s and probably shorter Using a turntable mount a 11" /35 might be shoehorned in and still secured for blue water sailing.

RFC wrote:
Delthak II – class broadside ironclad gunboat

Dimensions:
Length (waterline): 160’
Length (overall): 160’
Beam: 40’
Draft (normal): 10’
Draft (full): 10’3”

Armament:
22 x 6”/45 M895 BL guns 3 x 11 x 3 (115-pound AP shell; 200/gun)
Weight of broadside (13 guns): 1,495 pounds
Weight fore or aft (3 guns): 345 pounds

Armor:
Casemate: thickness= 3”; length = 146’; height = 14’; inclined 16˚
Freeboard fore & aft: thickness=3”; length = 14’; height = 4’
Casemate roof/decks: 1”
Conning tower: 6” (no slope)

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, double-expansion engines, direct drive, 2 shafts, 45 sdp (1,147 shp) = 14 knots (12.2 Old Earth knots)
Range 1,800nm at 9.5 knots (8.25 Old Earth knots)
Range 3,500 nm at 5.7 knots (5 Old Earth knots)
Bunker (normal): 59 tons
Bunker (max displacement): 115 tons

Complement: 158

Cost: CM 168,000

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Guns: 281 tons, 18.4 %
Armor: 286 tons, 18.7 %
Machinery: 166 tons, 10.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 448 tons, 29.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 348 tons, 22.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (penetrating hits to sink ship): 17 x 6”/45
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.81
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 9.2 seconds
Steadiness as gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck , a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.836 / 0.838
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.6 knots (12.65 Old Earth knots)s
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 4.00 ft
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.00 ft
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 10.00 ft
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 4.00 ft
- Average: 8.80 ft
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.7 %
Waterplane Area: 5,823 Square feet
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 4.66
- Overall: 1.19
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Joat42 wrote:[quote/]


To expand on Dilandu's answer, generally speaking most larger ships has their engines mounted in the middle of the ship to avoid unnecessary longitudinal stress bending because of uneven weight loading. Big cargo haulers have their engines further back but that is compensated by the cargo they are carrying. Loading a cargo-ship takes a lot of planning and calculations as to spread the weight correctly and making sure the ship doesn't become top-heavy.

Long shafts is nothing unusual at all in ships, which is why the shafts are manufactured to exacting standards to avoid vibrations and excessive wear on the bearings.

This is also a reason why azi-pods have become more popular with new ships, since you can essentially have the engine room anywhere by optimizing the weight distribution and lessen stresses on the hull. Of course, when a ship passes a certain size it's back to the old direct coupled drive shaft because azi-pods doesn't (yet) have enough brute strength (economically speaking) to propel a larger ship effectively.