Question about Beowulf tactics

Facts and reality regarding Beowulf are irrelevant in regards to the mandarins action using the SLN against Beowulf. Its all about PR, and the SL newsies are bought. There is no investigative reporting. There is no fact checking.

Reality and facts are irrelevant regarding SLN action against Beowulf. Perception is also irrelevant. The only relevant fact is what the SLN master tell them to do and the rest of the galaxy as the masters are simply going to publish what "reality" is and if you feel differently, they do not care. The reality is they have all the power without ANY check or balance outside of the GA trashing the SLN as no SL SDF has even a sniff of a prayer.

Base reality, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. Facts and reality are what dictators tell everyone it is. You guys really need to stick your nose into a country not ruled by a democracy/republic with freedom of speech, Judiciary based on rule of law and go view countries where dictators rule via fiat. Take off your rose colored glasses.

Be thankful for the hard won freedoms our ancestors blood was spilled for allowing you your skewed perception of what most of the world's reality is. Dictatorship or Oligarchy. Our USA/Europe perception of the world, is skewed. Skewed because we believe there is rule of law and freedom of speech. There is none in the SL. Individual worlds have such freedoms only because SL isn't completely corrupt based on interstellar buffers. The SL government is completely corrupt. It is an oligarchy with a giant SLN hammer willing to enforce the oligarchy's "reality" on one and all.

I think it is quite possible that Beowulf might buy a Moriarty system (an exisitng one from units and parts already produced but not yet deployed) from Haven as an interim step. Sure, it will be expensive and sure they are going to need to train people to use it but it has the advantage of dropping off-the-shelf gear into the system right now.

If they are convinced that the Mandarins are going to use the SLN to "deal" with referendum on leaving the SL, then they will need to deploy what they can get in the near term at the same time they build out the production to produce Mycrof (which is Manty gear).

First you put what you can in place and build from there. The threat is that now 600 lb gorilla is going to come in and stomp on you to invalidate the expected results. Your SDF isn't going to be able to stop 100 SLN SDs plus screen and multiple smaller assaults from differnt vectors at the same time (which is what I would do to further split the BSDF in the defense) so you start layering up the defences on the likely tactical approches and keep going. Heck, even if you get an adequate Mycroft deployed, you will have a 2nd layer (even if it is less effective with less range) to keep dealing with anything that makes it through you primary defence. You could also start shifting Moriarty units to cover light spots in the system which are not well covered by Mycroft.

It's your HOME SYSTEM, you lose it, you are gone.

Brigade XO wrote:I think it is quite possible that Beowulf might buy a Moriarty system (an exisitng one from units and parts already produced but not yet deployed) from Haven as an interim step. Sure, it will be expensive and sure they are going to need to train people to use it but it has the advantage of dropping off-the-shelf gear into the system right now.

If they are convinced that the Mandarins are going to use the SLN to "deal" with referendum on leaving the SL, then they will need to deploy what they can get in the near term at the same time they build out the production to produce Mycrof (which is Manty gear).

First you put what you can in place and build from there. The threat is that now 600 lb gorilla is going to come in and stomp on you to invalidate the expected results. Your SDF isn't going to be able to stop 100 SLN SDs plus screen and multiple smaller assaults from differnt vectors at the same time (which is what I would do to further split the BSDF in the defense) so you start layering up the defences on the likely tactical approches and keep going. Heck, even if you get an adequate Mycroft deployed, you will have a 2nd layer (even if it is less effective with less range) to keep dealing with anything that makes it through you primary defence. You could also start shifting Moriarty units to cover light spots in the system which are not well covered by Mycroft.

It's your HOME SYSTEM, you lose it, you are gone.

I just checked this out. As of the conversation between Honor and her Uncle Jacques at the end of ART, Mycroft is being installed at Beowulf. There is a nice info dump on Mycroft there as well.

Don

Brigade XO wrote:I think it is quite possible that Beowulf might buy a Moriarty system (an exisitng one from units and parts already produced but not yet deployed) from Haven as an interim step. Sure, it will be expensive and sure they are going to need to train people to use it but it has the advantage of dropping off-the-shelf gear into the system right now.

I really doubt that Beowulf will invest in Moriarty control modules, although they might invest in a few freighter-loads of Havenite System Defense MDMs to pad out limited quantities of Apollo System Defense Pods. Interim fire control can be provided by BSDF ships, using Shannon Foraker's rotating control links trick if necessary.

A couple of Hermes Bouys to provide FTL Command and Control to the ships controlling the missiles would be useful and (relatively) readily available, but Moriarty command modules would be an expensive detour to getting a system wide defense net established.

It's probably a stretch, but Beowulf is going to be building the Keyhole II units for the Bolthole Specials and Keyhole II has mostly the same capabilities as the Mycroft control modules. I wonder how difficult it would be to tether and power a KHII from a ship that doesn't have the recessed KHII docks -- say a ship (or ships) configured for final operational checks as the units come off the assembly line(s)?

Could the first few KHII units be deployed as interim Moriarty control modules without needing the SD(p)s they would normally be connected to? How much internal electronics are required to interface with a KH unit beyond the physical docking recesses?

Brigade XO wrote:I think it is quite possible that Beowulf might buy a Moriarty system (an exisitng one from units and parts already produced but not yet deployed) from Haven as an interim step. Sure, it will be expensive and sure they are going to need to train people to use it but it has the advantage of dropping off-the-shelf gear into the system right now.

If they are convinced that the Mandarins are going to use the SLN to "deal" with referendum on leaving the SL, then they will need to deploy what they can get in the near term at the same time they build out the production to produce Mycrof (which is Manty gear).

First you put what you can in place and build from there. The threat is that now 600 lb gorilla is going to come in and stomp on you to invalidate the expected results. Your SDF isn't going to be able to stop 100 SLN SDs plus screen and multiple smaller assaults from differnt vectors at the same time (which is what I would do to further split the BSDF in the defense) so you start layering up the defences on the likely tactical approches and keep going. Heck, even if you get an adequate Mycroft deployed, you will have a 2nd layer (even if it is less effective with less range) to keep dealing with anything that makes it through you primary defence. You could also start shifting Moriarty units to cover light spots in the system which are not well covered by Mycroft.

It's your HOME SYSTEM, you lose it, you are gone.

It would take almost two months to order and receive a Moriarty system from Haven, due to travel times. By then, the vote would have taken place, and Beowulf would already have Mycroft installed.

Relax wrote:Base reality, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. Facts and reality are what dictators tell everyone it is. You guys really need to stick your nose into a country not ruled by a democracy/republic with freedom of speech, Judiciary based on rule of law and go view countries where dictators rule via fiat. Take off your rose colored glasses.

What was Eric Flint's comment at HonorCon - "Stalinist's don't ask about facts or reality, their sole concern is 'What does the party think about this'"?

kzt wrote:

Relax wrote:Base reality, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. Facts and reality are what dictators tell everyone it is. You guys really need to stick your nose into a country not ruled by a democracy/republic with freedom of speech, Judiciary based on rule of law and go view countries where dictators rule via fiat. Take off your rose colored glasses.

What was Eric Flint's comment at HonorCon - "Stalinist's don't ask about facts or reality, their sole concern is 'What does the party think about this'"?

I read somewhere that "Pravda" fully translates as "accepted truth." Anyone able to provide information on this?

Through history, extractive economies, run by oligarchs or dictators have been the normal situation. If enough people are unwilling to check what they are told against testable facts, it can happen here also. At present, it looks to me that some people are trying to make it occur here. An inclusive economy is better for most people, but an extractive one provides much more for the current generation of big shots, even though it is a poor choice for their descendants. An extractive economy needs force and/or fraud to maintain it.

People are either makers, takers, or fakers, and produce economies accordingly.

Weird Harold wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:I think it is quite possible that Beowulf might buy a Moriarty system (an exisitng one from units and parts already produced but not yet deployed) from Haven as an interim step. Sure, it will be expensive and sure they are going to need to train people to use it but it has the advantage of dropping off-the-shelf gear into the system right now.

I really doubt that Beowulf will invest in Moriarty control modules, although they might invest in a few freighter-loads of Havenite System Defense MDMs to pad out limited quantities of Apollo System Defense Pods. Interim fire control can be provided by BSDF ships, using Shannon Foraker's rotating control links trick if necessary.

A couple of Hermes Bouys to provide FTL Command and Control to the ships controlling the missiles would be useful and (relatively) readily available, but Moriarty command modules would be an expensive detour to getting a system wide defense net established.

It's probably a stretch, but Beowulf is going to be building the Keyhole II units for the Bolthole Specials and Keyhole II has mostly the same capabilities as the Mycroft control modules. I wonder how difficult it would be to tether and power a KHII from a ship that doesn't have the recessed KHII docks -- say a ship (or ships) configured for final operational checks as the units come off the assembly line(s)?

Could the first few KHII units be deployed as interim Moriarty control modules without needing the SD(p)s they would normally be connected to? How much internal electronics are required to interface with a KH unit beyond the physical docking recesses?

Hi Harold,

From text ev in ART, Beowulf is proceeding with the installation of Mycroft. Apparently the pods and the keyhole platforms are available, since the main concern seemed to be whether or not there would be adequate time to install them before the SLN showed up in force to contest Beowulf's leaving the League. The comment was made that since Keyhole II normally was used connected to an SDP, special power supplies would have to be fitted to each platform.

Lyonheart has observed that either the attack failed to materialize or came and was dealt with by the end of COG, because in her conversation with Zilwicke, Honor doesn't mention it as an item of concern, the widow of vulnerability being past.

Don

n7axw wrote:
Hi Harold,

From text ev in ART, Beowulf is proceeding with the installation of Mycroft. Apparently the pods and the keyhole platforms are available, since the main concern seemed to be whether or not there would be adequate time to install them before the SLN showed up in force to contest Beowulf's leaving the League. The comment was made that since Keyhole II normally was used connected to an SDP, special power supplies would have to be fitted to each platform.

Lyonheart has observed that either the attack failed to materialize or came and was dealt with by the end of COG, because in her conversation with Zilwicke, Honor doesn't mention it as an item of concern, the widow of vulnerability being past.

Don

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Do & All --

I suspect that the SLN punative strike on Beowulf has not happened yet, but that will not change its outcome.
I suspect the scenario will be thus --
1) SLN task force arrives in Beowulf space and is challenged either LS or FTL by Beowulf SDF / Beowulf Defense Minister, with entire exchange on system broadcast.
2) Opt A SL Adm exits stage left with statement that he was "mis-informed" about Beowulf public attitudes.
Opt B SL ADM "attempts" to press his point until targeting LIDAR starts to boil the paint of the SL SD's.
Opt C Part or all of the SL task force spend the remainder of the conflict on a Beowulfan tropical island as POW's.

-- Stewart

n7axw wrote:
Hi Harold,

From text ev in ART, Beowulf is proceeding with the installation of Mycroft. Apparently the pods and the keyhole platforms are available, since the main concern seemed to be whether or not there would be adequate time to install them before the SLN showed up in force to contest Beowulf's leaving the League. The comment was made that since Keyhole II normally was used connected to an SDP, special power supplies would have to be fitted to each platform.

Lyonheart has observed that either the attack failed to materialize or came and was dealt with by the end of COG, because in her conversation with Zilwicke, Honor doesn't mention it as an item of concern, the widow of vulnerability being past.

Don

Do we have an actual time line that says when COG occurred relative to the events in ART. There was no reason for Honor to discuss Beowulf with Zilwicki - he was concerned with the situation on Mesa, and that was what she reassured him about. In point of fact, I would have been very surprised if the subject of Beowulf had even come up in the discussion between Honor and Zilwicki.