Solar League Assembly

JeffEngel wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Actually, a portion of this thread brought the following to mind.

Much of the impetus driving the Talbott Quadrant into the arms of the SEM was the existence of the OFS. With OFS now pretty much removed from the equation, are we going to see a number of the Talbott systems attempting to pull a New Tuscany, and withdraw from the SEM, and if so, will Manticore let them go?

I doubt anyone is figuring that things are all that safe yet, and before they are, there will be too much shared excitement and friendly ties knitting Talbott together and all of it to Manticore to make system or quadrant separatism too attractive.

Possibly, but it would make a nice ploy for the MAlign to distract the SEM - not financing terrorists like Norbrandt, but legitimate secession groups, and there will always be some.

fallsfromtrees wrote:I doubt anyone is figuring that things are all that safe yet, and before they are, there will be too much shared excitement and friendly ties knitting Talbott together and all of it to Manticore to make system or quadrant separatism too attractive.

Possibly, but it would make a nice ploy for the MAlign to distract the SEM - not financing terrorists like Norbrandt, but legitimate secession groups, and there will always be some.[/quote]
No, you work at getting guys like Karl-Heinz Kurras into position to make the SEM look like murders.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-626275.html

Hi KZT,

"Aw, what's with the all negative waves, Moriarty?"
-Kelly's Heroes (Donald Sutherland to Gavin MacLeod)

L

kzt wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:I doubt anyone is figuring that things are all that safe yet, and before they are, there will be too much shared excitement and friendly ties knitting Talbott together and all of it to Manticore to make system or quadrant separatism too attractive.

Possibly, but it would make a nice ploy for the MAlign to distract the SEM - not financing terrorists like Norbrandt, but legitimate secession groups, and there will always be some.

No, you work at getting guys like Karl-Heinz Kurras into position to make the SEM look like murders.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-626275.html[/quote]

fallsfromtrees wrote:Actually, a portion of this thread brought the following to mind.

Much of the impetus driving the Talbott Quadrant into the arms of the SEM was the existence of the OFS. With OFS now pretty much removed from the equation, are we going to see a number of the Talbott systems attempting to pull a New Tuscany, and withdraw from the SEM, and if so, will Manticore let them go?

Not likely. The Quadrant is already beginning to feel the economic advantages of being a part of the Empire. If they became independent, they would lose the economic incentives, the investment, and the protection (both economic and security) provided by Manticore.

Now, if a system did vote to leave, I believe that Manticore would let them go, though they would probably want negotiations on a variety of issues.

SWM wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Actually, a portion of this thread brought the following to mind.

Much of the impetus driving the Talbott Quadrant into the arms of the SEM was the existence of the OFS. With OFS now pretty much removed from the equation, are we going to see a number of the Talbott systems attempting to pull a New Tuscany, and withdraw from the SEM, and if so, will Manticore let them go?

Not likely. The Quadrant is already beginning to feel the economic advantages of being a part of the Empire. If they became independent, they would lose the economic incentives, the investment, and the protection (both economic and security) provided by Manticore.

Now, if a system did vote to leave, I believe that Manticore would let them go, though they would probably want negotiations on a variety of issues.

Concur, SWM. I think most of the Talbott folks (at least the leaders) see that Known Space is about to get a great deal more...uncertain in the near future (OFS might have been a miserable bunch of SOB's, but at least you knew what they were and what they were going to do). And being part of what currently is the strongest military power in Known Space does lead to a warm and fuzzy feeling...

Heck, I'm expecting the new Government of New Tuscany (after the revolution coming along anytime now...) to be applying to join the SEM, along with some of the Meyers Sector.

Manticore's biggest problem may not be planets leaving, it may be the sheer number who want to join.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Hutch wrote:Concur, SWM. I think most of the Talbott folks (at least the leaders) see that Known Space is about to get a great deal more...uncertain in the near future (OFS might have been a miserable bunch of SOB's, but at least you knew what they were and what they were going to do). And being part of what currently is the strongest military power in Known Space does lead to a warm and fuzzy feeling...

Heck, I'm expecting the new Government of New Tuscany (after the revolution coming along anytime now...) to be applying to join the SEM, along with some of the Meyers Sector.

Manticore's biggest problem may not be planets leaving, it may be the sherr number who want to join.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Could be. I think Manticore is still regarding annexation as a special case rather than as the default expectation, in the fashion of the Andermani Empire, Solarian League, and People's Republic of Haven.

Silesia was a remarkable market, sandwiched between junction termini, already largely patrolled by the RMN, and part of a deal with the Andermani to resolve a standing problem.

San Martin and Talbott both asked for it and occupy the far ends of junction termini, so they're easy extensions of organic Manticoran economic and military coverage. Basilisk didn't ask for it, but wasn't able to govern its own system against other human powers and is also next door by way of wormholes.

Otherwise, Manticore has traditionally just wanted friendly relations with people able to keep interstellar markets and wormhole termini running peacefully. In the former League, that's likely to require multistellar nations, probably a large number of them, individually comparable in size to the Andermani Empire or old Silesia perhaps.

If nearby systems would like to be annexed - New Tuscany, for instance, Matapan, Hennesy - I imagine Manticore would consider it seriously nowadays. But Meyers isn't nearby, and is already a hub for a former Frontier "Security" sector that could be crafted into a state.

In cases like those, if you can find or create a local state that serves the SEM's rather minimal and benign local interests (give us a decent market for trade; don't shoot folks up for kicks; don't enslave them), that's what you'll prefer to arrange if you're Manticore.

JeffEngel wrote:Could be. I think Manticore is still regarding annexation as a special case rather than as the default expectation, in the fashion of the Andermani Empire, Solarian League, and People's Republic of Haven.

Agree that they do not consider annexation a default expectation. But they are definitely open to it, and expect some systems to request to join; we know because they specifically wanted to give captured Havenite systems the option to join if they wanted. And that was under the High Ridge administration!

SWM wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Could be. I think Manticore is still regarding annexation as a special case rather than as the default expectation, in the fashion of the Andermani Empire, Solarian League, and People's Republic of Haven.

Agree that they do not consider annexation a default expectation. But they are definitely open to it, and expect some systems to request to join; we know because they specifically wanted to give captured Havenite systems the option to join if they wanted. And that was under the High Ridge administration!

True, although in that case I wonder how much of that was holding on to an unlikely peace treaty sticking point just to drag out the war on paper.

Special circumstances could be rung up there too, although it does get to the point where someone may note that every circumstance is special in some way. Those were systems in Manticore's general neighborhood; with their recent background, they may have been poor candidates for stable independence (particularly with a Havenite claim to them and a resurgent Haven still right there); and a wartime occupation, on friendly enough terms, would be at least sort of introduction to Manticoran governance.

It's a great big and confusing universe. There will be a lot of playing things by ear and adapting to the needs and perspectives of some 2000 star systems in the League proper. The GA - the SEM particularly - has a very flexible approach to the forms of relations it can accept among friends. We can expect it's going to need that flexibility, exercise it, and probably extend it greatly before things settle back down.

SWM wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Could be. I think Manticore is still regarding annexation as a special case rather than as the default expectation, in the fashion of the Andermani Empire, Solarian League, and People's Republic of Haven.

Agree that they do not consider annexation a default expectation. But they are definitely open to it, and expect some systems to request to join; we know because they specifically wanted to give captured Havenite systems the option to join if they wanted. And that was under the High Ridge administration!

I remember President Pritchart was unhappy at the prospect of systems close to Haven joining the Star Kingdom; I don't recall anyone in the HR side discussing annexing any of the liberated, formerly Havenite Systems. Didn't hear whether they became Havenite systems --officially, anyway, they are probably "protectorates" for now--after Thunderbolt "liberated" them again. Just that idiot Younger being all belligerent at the treaty negotiations.

Rob

The most offensive thing that the Solatian League and MA do willingly is kill millions of people just to game the system.