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by n7axw
» Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:19 am
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n7axw
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Hi fallsfrom trees, Right. Henke's questioning of Hongo with Alfredo present was exactly what went through my own mind when I made my previous comment. Don When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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by dan92677
» Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:22 am
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dan92677
Posts: 218
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Yes, but won't Henke get her own 'cat as soon as she hits Manticore again?
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by kzt
» Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:38 am
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kzt
Posts: 11360
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I strongly suspect that it's perfectly possible to confuse the hell out of a treecat if you know much about them. They are not mind reading. For example, techniques to make something the truth for you. Memory is very plastic and I would expect similar techniques exist to defeat skilled vigorous interrogation.
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by fallsfromtrees
» Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:56 am
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fallsfromtrees
Posts: 1960
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Only if you know they are coming, and I suspect that most of those techniques will leave other emotional markers that the treecat will learn to handle. Should be interesting to see how RFC handles this aspect of the treecats coming out of the closet. ========================
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln |
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by Torlek
» Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:18 am
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Torlek
Posts: 80
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Of course it could be possible to fool a treecat in an interrogation. But in the past treecat interrogation were exceedingly rare nor are treecats available to the MA to train such techniques. So while it is possible to fool a treecat, it is unlikely that the MA knows how to do it or trained its operatives to do it. The problem with a treecat interrogation is that all the markers for emotional state, that humans use(facial expression, body language, heartbeat ect.), are irrelevant. Therefore getting trough a treecat interrogation requires a completely different set of techniques. And since humans are not build to control their emotions but the expression of emotions, it would probably require some for of drug. |
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by SharkHunter
» Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:22 am
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SharkHunter
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For the purposes of this thread, I'm going to argue otherwise. I'm not even in the Honorverse and I find skilled liars far easier to detect than just about any other form of "human snake". All any treecat has to pick up is the sensation and when the person being interrogated is trying to hide something, like Alfredo did to Hongbo. Also, Pritchart fooled St. Justice and a near-full time human watcher (Fontein) for years. She didn't fool Honor; neither did Victor Cachat -- because Honor can directly read people enough to know if they are telling the truth in less than a few seconds. Honor's read also lets her effectively testify about Pritchart's integrity and Simoes sanity and emotional pain, and read Victor Cachat enough to know that he's got a suicide device in his pocket. The same Cachat who fooled St. Justice and many others, a mane who she states as "closer to a treecat in mindset" than anyone she's ever met. Now add that Nimitz and other treecats put Honor & a tiny few other Two Leg's empathic awareness at a higher level than other humans, but still far less than their own. That's why 2nd Fleet'ers being interrogated hated having the treecats present when they were questioned, even after they realized that the 'cats couldn't directly read their minds but could tell when they were obfuscating or lying. All the interrogatee could do to stop the information flow was to clam up and say nothing at all. ---------------------
All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all |
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by kzt
» Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:05 pm
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kzt
Posts: 11360
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So can you expand on your plans to mass produce Honor?
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by fallsfromtrees
» Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:25 pm
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fallsfromtrees
Posts: 1960
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Not mass produced, but there is already textev that there is at least one more human with an even more developed sense of whatever Honor has - her son Raoul - still young, but still, and he was supposed to (before Eric screwed up the timeline) be one of the main protagonists against the MAlign. ========================
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln |
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by kzt
» Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:18 pm
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kzt
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I think relying on the fleet commander and a toddler to do interrogations across a few dozen worlds hundreds of LY apart is not an ideal plan. But opinions may vary. |
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by SharkHunter
» Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:08 pm
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SharkHunter
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No, what we -- or at least I -- am saying is that if treecats are at a magnitude level better at emotional detection than Honor, there's no way to develop techniques to fool the 'cats about intent or even action without intent, aka the nano-tech assasin trick. So it's a matter of following through with Sorrow Singer's plan to protect their protectors with 'cats, and I'd be inclined to think that ONI and many other flag officers, etc. are at least as smart as Henke in working with a treecat and get really good at fishing in a troubled pond and come up with good answers. ---------------------
All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all |
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