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Tiny tech questions...

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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by SharkHunter   » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:23 pm

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fleadermouse wrote:As a serious handgun shooter I decided to actually run the numbers on this an do some research on dart type projectiles

First the sectional density of a dart would be significantly higher than a traditional bullet . A 55 grain 3 mm dart would have a SD of 3.43 as compared to 1.57 for a 5.56 mm bullet thus the ballistics would be excellent.

As to the questions with recoil. I shoot 44 mag on a regular basis and can hit a standard chest silhouette at 50 yards all day long side arm one handed slow fire.

So I calculated the free recoil energy for my 44 load 1450 fps with a 240 grain bullet over win 296 25 grains: 21.20 ft/lbs

The free recoil energy for a 55 grain bullet at 6000 fps over 1 grain of powder ( I needed something to keep the program happy) is 11.78 ft/ lbs which is about the same as a full power 357 load. Definitely popping but not a structural problem for a normal human at all.
Simply awesome analysis! Though I only partially know the meaning of some of the terms... :) With a "barrel-aligned" telescopic camera, I'd bet your range with the .44 [which is practically a hand cannon by comparison] would be even further out.

That's also where I'm thinking that Honor's range might be "way in the heck out there" if she wants it to be because she has to do a couple things to snap the weapon into a firing mode (which would presumably activate the fingertip camera,likely locking the structures inside her arm and finger into a long enough "barrel" for the dart, etc. We also know that she has and does practice with handguns AND her arm-hidden weapon.

I can picture one of her armsmen asking "what's the longest shot you can make regularly with that thing?" and her grinning and saying, let's go play! and maybe bet said fellow an Old Tilman on who wins the long-shot contest. The lady does like to win, after all.
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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by n7axw   » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:55 pm

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Without getting into questions out of my depth, I would imagine that the pulse weapon in Honors finger is designed to be used in exactly the situation in which she used it...

I would presume its range to be about the same as a small caliber pistol.

What I find myself wondering about is the effect of covering up the end of the barrel with the end of her finger.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:44 pm

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n7axw wrote:What I find myself wondering about is the effect of covering up the end of the barrel with the end of her finger.


Only a problem for the first round, if that.

I suspect it would have no more effect that the condoms applied to M-16 muzzles in 'Nam -- none.
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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by Garth 2   » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:04 pm

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Quote form OBS

"Kilgore's pulse rifle surged back, its recoil almost imperceptible through his armour as its small, powerful grav coil spat a stream of four-millimetre darts down-range"

"emptying a full hundred-round extended magazine into them in less than twenty seconds"

So pulse rifle do have recoil, therefore one can assume Honor 'hand-gun' also does but it proportional to the capability of the weapon and given she was firing it in WoH (shooting range when White Haven visits) with no noticeable injury or issue, one can assume that her arm is suitable built to withstand the recoil generated.
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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:15 pm

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SharkHunter wrote: Simply awesome analysis! Though I only partially know the meaning of some of the terms... :) With a "barrel-aligned" telescopic camera, I'd bet your range with the .44 [which is practically a hand cannon by comparison] would be even further out.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point the inherent accuracy limits of a round fired out of a short barrel are such that even if you had the gun bolted in place so it couldn't move between shots, in a very long breeze-less building, the bullets would still eventually deviate enough that you couldn't be sure any two would hit the same spot.

But well before that it's not enough to have a camera aligned with the barrel because to aim at significant distance something needs to measure the range and cause you to elevate the barrel enough to compensate for the bullet drop caused by gravity. (Have you ever seen the ladder sights on the black powder rifles? They were needed because you had to aim so far up, at long range, to compensate for the drop from the relatively slow bullet)

Now for most situations you accuracy aiming and holding the pistol steady totally overwhelm that inherent accuracy (or even inaccuracy caused by crosswind)- but it's still there. Even if Honor's targeting systems and bionic arm eliminate the other variations that normally dominate pistol accuracy you're still left with the physics limits of the gun and round; it mass, velocity, drag, and original "pointing" accuracy of the short barrel.
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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by fleadermouse   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:20 am

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I think the bbl length question is getting a little to much play here. Bbl length is primarily for acceleration during the powder burn phase of a gunpowder based weapon. It's only the last inch or so of the bbl. that is truly vital for stabilization. That's why you can spend some real money on a good crown job at the gunsmith to rehab a bbl. now that's not to say that a good bbl is not the way to go, and throat erosion can be a problem at the chamber end but a good crown is vital.

I personally know a guy who can shoot at least as well as I can with my 8 1/2" 44 with a J frame 38 with a 2.25 inch bbl. it's freaky to see him punch hole after hole with that dinky little thing at 50 yards. His groups are about 18" but they are almost all on the paper at the max distance of the indoor range we shoot at.

Anyway the magazine for Honor's gun is in her forearm as per her meeting with chinlu Anderman in war of honor so a reasonable bbl length would be about 10 inches, and you can get sub MOA accuracy out of a 10" bbl with today's tech. The big issue with accuracy is consistency through the shot. Can you do it the exact same way every time?

The accuracy of the shooter is the limiting factor the vast majority of the time not the weapon. My best guess would be that the weapon itself would have roughly twice the effective range of a M4 carbine which has about 12" of actual rifling so say 400-600 yards depending on your definition of effective.

Braced she would be able to use the full effective range of the weapon. Un braced probably about a quarter of that.

Finally bbl length would not effect velocity on a grav driver based weapon so the bbl might not be in contact with the dart at all as it would effectively be guided by the grav pulse so it would be generator alignment not the "barrel" that would define the base accuracy of the weapon system. In that case we are just making wild ass guesses.
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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by n7axw   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:53 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
n7axw wrote:What I find myself wondering about is the effect of covering up the end of the barrel with the end of her finger.


Only a problem for the first round, if that.

I suspect it would have no more effect that the condoms applied to M-16 muzzles in 'Nam -- none.


Is this the voice of experience speaking.... :twisted:

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:06 am

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n7axw wrote:Is this the voice of experience speaking....


I am a Vietnam Vet, but I was not a Grunt.

USAF maintenance types could have been locked up on a base anywhere in the world and never known the difference -- as long as they lobbed in a couple of rockets each month and hired "mama-sans" to play the part of Vietnamese cleaning ladies. :roll: Other than that, my 364.5 days in-country were a drunken blur.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by SharkHunter   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:36 am

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What are some other tiny tech things we oughtta wonder about?

Molycyrics, Harkness or Ruth's mini-comp, Cachat's virtual keyboard, Manticore's configurable KEW, range and kill energy of a LAC shipkiller missile... Things that make you go hmmmm....
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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Re: Tiny tech questions...
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:49 am

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SharkHunter wrote:What are some other tiny tech things we oughtta wonder about?


Related to Honor's bionic arm, what all is her bionic eye capable of? Does she hear cheesy sound effects when she changes focus? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OyIBuF73PQ
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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