Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

Hutch wrote:

SWM wrote:Mad-4A,

If you put together every single spacer from the Talbot Cluster, you might have enough people to man a single Manticoran destroyer. The Talbot cluster simply doesn't have very many ships, and civilian crews are very small compared to warships.

You won't start getting significant numbers of recruits from the Talbot Cluster for a few more years, as they come out of the revamped education system. In the meantime, the makeshift LAC training camps will suffice in the Cluster.

I would argue your math at bit, SWM. We know that one of the poorest and least-developed systems (Nuncio) has around 10-12 Old-fashioned LACs--figuring crews of 15 each (less automation) plus 'releif' crews, that's a minimum of 200 'Space navy' folks, and I imagine that most of the rest of the poorer Talbott systems have at least that many.

And the RTU worlds do have hyper-capable warships, IIRC, at least to LC levels, so there are probably 3,000-5,000 naval personnel with some capability in the Talbott Sector.

Of course, that is not enough to man even one Sollie SD, so your point is valid.

And while it will be years before Talbotters begin to play a role in terms of Officers and the more technical areas, I suspect that areas that need less skill or specialized training will be offered. For example, Cook, Logistics, Hydroponics, laser crew (for those most skilled in the Talbott SDF's), and other roles that don't require higher-level technological training.

Yes, we know that the New Tuscany light cruiser that was the witness to the destructon of the NT Freighter was considered "one of the newest and most powerful" light cruisers in the NT fleet - indicating that NT has a substancial fleet, including several Light Cruisers, and they were not as wealthy as the RTU worlds - which probably each had a navy to counter NT and (probably collectively)the nearby Monican fleets.

SWM wrote:You're right, Hutch, I underestimated the number of spacers in the Talbot cluster. Your estimate is probably closer--not enough to man one Solarian superdreadnought.

I think both of you are off. You have the RTU which has a repectable number of merchis. You have those LACs at Nuncio. Both Rembrandt and Flax have SDFs I think I recall evidence that Montana has at least some LACs. In SftS we learned that New Tuscany has both merchis and warships. Then there is San Miguel (sp) which we don't have specific textev for, but is certainly wealthy enough to support a modest SDF.

I doubt that my memory has covered all the bases. But it would not be unreasonable to visualize enough spacers in the quadrant to man a couple SDs. Bear in mind that the designs they are using would be the older manpower intensive ones.

I obviously don't know how many spacers there are in Talbot. It's just that I suspect that you guys are underestimating.

Don

n7axw wrote:

SWM wrote:You're right, Hutch, I underestimated the number of spacers in the Talbot cluster. Your estimate is probably closer--not enough to man one Solarian superdreadnought.

I think both of you are off. You have the RTU which has a repectable number of merchis. You have those LACs at Nuncio. Both Rembrandt and Flax have SDFs I think I recall evidence that Montana has at least some LACs. In SftS we learned that New Tuscany has both merchis and warships. Then there is San Miguel (sp) which we don't have specific textev for, but is certainly wealthy enough to support a modest SDF.

I doubt that my memory has covered all the bases. But it would not be unreasonable to visualize enough spacers in the quadrant to man a couple SDs. Bear in mind that the designs they are using would be the older manpower intensive ones.

I obviously don't know how many spacers there are in Talbot. It's just that I suspect that you guys are underestimating.

Don

A few dozen merchants with crews of 15 each are not going to add significantly to the number of spacers in the Quadrant. Each of the Cluster SDFs are just a few destroyers or light cruisers; nothing larger, and I'd be surprised if any SDF had more than half a dozen ships. So how many people do you think you can get from that?

I think I remember that the Sollys had actual projectile weapons (like auto-canon) as part of their close defense. That sutff might be usable against pirates or taking out a pinnacle but not much use in system defense.

Brigade XO wrote:I think I remember that the Sollys had actual projectile weapons (like auto-canon) as part of their close defense. That sutff might be usable against pirates or taking out a pinnacle but not much use in system defense.

Only on Battle Fleet reserve units that have not been updated. All active Battle Fleet units (ones that actually move under their own impellers, as opposed to the ones that just sit in orbit--this is the UNReady Reserve) have had the auto cannon replaced by PDLCs, but they have not increased the number of CM tubes or PDLCs from what they had before updating (auto-cannon were replaced by PDLCs on a one-for-one basis, numbers of CM tubes were not changed).

SWM wrote:"n7axw"]"SWM"]You're right, Hutch, I underestimated the number of spacers in the Talbot cluster. Your estimate is probably closer--not enough to man one Solarian superdreadnought.

I think both of you are off. You have the RTU which has a repectable number of merchis. You have those LACs at Nuncio. Both Rembrandt and Flax have SDFs I think I recall evidence that Montana has at least some LACs. In SftS we learned that New Tuscany has both merchis and warships. Then there is San Miguel (sp) which we don't have specific textev for, but is certainly wealthy enough to support a modest SDF.

I doubt that my memory has covered all the bases. But it would not be unreasonable to visualize enough spacers in the quadrant to man a couple SDs. Bear in mind that the designs they are using would be the older manpower intensive ones.

I obviously don't know how many spacers there are in Talbot. It's just that I suspect that you guys are underestimating.

Don[/quote]
A few dozen merchants with crews of 15 each are not going to add significantly to the number of spacers in the Quadrant. Each of the Cluster SDFs are just a few destroyers or light cruisers; nothing larger, and I'd be surprised if any SDF had more than half a dozen ships. So how many people do you think you can get from that?[/quote]


---------------

And we are back to the issue of even at a grossly high estimate of 10K spacers, is it better to have the Talboters man two (2) x-SLN SD's that (without escort) can be in max 2 systems (1 each)
or use those same 10K spacers to man 15 or 20 (probably 15) captured Galdiator CA's, which can cover 15 systems as anti-piracy or, operating in pairs cover 7 to 10 systems and exercise against each other.

The Gladiators are a newer design, at least provided a challenge to Oversteegan, and would provide a better training tool.

-- Stewart

As far as I am concerned, ditch the SDs. Far more interesting is the potential for the BCs and lighter units captured. Those, placed in the right context, might actually do some good.

Don

n7axw wrote:As far as I am concerned, ditch the SDs. Far more interesting is the potential for the BCs and lighter units captured. Those, placed in the right context, might actually do some good.

Don

-----------------

Agreed, but no one else in the thread seems to be able to get their eyes off the obsolete SD scrap

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:or use those same 10K spacers to man 15 or 20 (probably 15) captured Galdiator CA's, which can cover 15 systems as anti-piracy or, operating in pairs cover 7 to 10 systems and exercise against each other.

Since the Gladiator class CA is a manpower heavy SLN design, I suspect you could only man 8-10 gladiators with 10K spacers.

I couldn't find any crew-size stats for any CA class from before Manticore began to automate much of their ships. I'm guessing a Heavy Cruiser would take a quarter of an SD's manning -- about 1500 for a SLN design.

kzt wrote:The minor detail that those LACs have an 18 month reactor life with 36 months to a new reactor, plus no replacement nodes or any other spare part is a kind of a big problem that David is handwaving away.

I don't know where you got the 18 month reactor life. From Echoes of Honor, chapter three

Our present estimate is that a Shrike's original power core should be good for about eighteen T-years, which means the only practical limitation on the class's endurance will be her life support."

That's years, not months.