Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

The E wrote:

Oversimplifying, it's like handing an 18 year old the keys to a Formula 1 race-car, and told he just needs to drive the course, not win the race. Unless it's a total idiot who tries to floor the accelerator, he's going to finish it eventually.

Have you actually looked at what happens when someone not used to F1 cars gets handed the keys? These are very difficult machines to operate, there's a reason why drivers generally go through several lower-class racers before they get to compete in F1.

Ive seen videos. They actually a) can't start the car without it immediately stalling out, and b) once they get it started they can't go anywhere because it requires understanding how to warm up the tires before they can get enough friction to drive.

Somtaaw wrote:-- to address everyone hopping on the bandwagon of shooting down the evac design, please enlighten me as to how YOU have a better idea, instead of just jumping the bandwagon of bashing on a n00b too stupid to touch this obviously well beaten horse.

People have already done given a better idea. It would be cheaper, require less manpower, require little or no modification, require less maintenance, and would have a higher capacity to use an old freighter, or perhaps an old military transport. An evacuation vehicle does not require high speeds--remember that they were using a freighter to evacuate Hancock. Nor does it require defenses. No evacuation ship is going to endanger thousands of non-combat passengers by engaging in combat--if it is cornered and challenged, it will drop its wedge.

The issue of not enough "manpower" always comes down to this: 1) Do you believe people are stupid, or 2) Do you believe people with an average education with motivation are not lazy drecks. IE stupid. Stupid is really just a short way of saying lazy drecks. Be a lazy dreck long enough and sure enough... said person becomes stupid.

All about motivation.
Learning how to operate/repair machinery, even complex machinery, is not hard. It does require a little bit of dedication and problem solving skills. Any prior experience in operating complex machinery even obsolete machinery or problem solving skills transfers to new machines readily. Only hindrance I see in old farts who have been operating the same machinery for 20 years is complacency and mental lazyness.
All about motivation.

I always land on #2 for human norms. Obtaining the people to man the ships is not the problem. Rather it is what do you do with the thing once it is manned. OtJT is not the problem either. Everyone learns on-the-job. Competency is gained very quickly when motivated. When unmotivated, then what should take a week or two takes years or far more likely, decades to never.

Is there an easier solution for defense? Pods+C&C loop as no one else has MDM and won't for years to come. So: Uh, yea there an easier solution leaving all that "manpower" able to do something better like help bring others up to snuff or close enough or building new orbital factories to build modern ships or...

I wonder if I am graduating to "old sweat" status around here. These light bulb ideas for using the captured SDs are looking dimmer all the time.

Guys, there are any number of uses to which these ships could be put. But for any idea to be truly useable, you have to ask yourself whether or not meeting a need in the advocated manner is truly the best, most cost effective way of achieving the desired end. No one really can afford to do it any other way. In Manticore's case, that was true even before OB. It's even more true now.

Using the captured SLN ships cannot be regarded as a goal that is worthwhile in and of itself.

Don

SWM wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:-- to address everyone hopping on the bandwagon of shooting down the evac design, please enlighten me as to how YOU have a better idea, instead of just jumping the bandwagon of bashing on a n00b too stupid to touch this obviously well beaten horse.

People have already done given a better idea. It would be cheaper, require less manpower, require little or no modification, require less maintenance, and would have a higher capacity to use an old freighter, or perhaps an old military transport. An evacuation vehicle does not require high speeds--remember that they were using a freighter to evacuate Hancock. Nor does it require defenses. No evacuation ship is going to endanger thousands of non-combat passengers by engaging in combat--if it is cornered and challenged, it will drop its wedge.

Your memory is playing tricks on you.

Operation Carry Out (the evacuation from Hancock Station in The Short Victorious War) was carried out by minelayers with military drives/compensators:

The Short Victorious War, Chapter 28 wrote:"I see." Sarnow rubbed his mustache again, then nodded. "All right, let's do it. Samuel, inform the minelayers' senior officer that I want his field laid ninety-eight million klicks out. And—" the admiral's green eyes slipped, almost against their will, toward Honor "—further inform him that he is to execute Carry Out as soon as he's done that."
"Aye, aye, Sir." This time Webster's response was audible over the com, and Honor caught Sarnow's gaze and nodded slightly, acknowledging the sense of his orders. Operation Carry Out would remove all the noncombatants the minelayers could cram aboard from the base. It would only be about fifty percent of the total base personnel—and wouldn't include Paul Tankersley—but there was no point pretending they had any other option. Eight battlecruisers couldn't possibly stop the firepower accelerating toward them.

The Short Victorious War, Chpater 29 wrote:"Argus is reporting something, Sir."
Rollins stopped pacing to dart a quick look at Captain Holcombe. The chief of staff was bent over Captain Santiago's shoulder, watching the ops officer's display, and the admiral made himself wait without comment while the data coalesced.
"Five ships, Sir," Holcombe said finally. "Acceleration about four-point-niner KPS squared. They're on the far side of the inner system, headed directly away from the Manty base—and Admiral Chin—toward the hyper limit." He glanced at a time readout. "Transmission lag is about thirty-three minutes from the platforms that picked them up, Sir."
"IDs?"
"They're pretty big, Sir," Santiago replied. "Pulling that accel, they're probably battlecruisers, but there's no way to confirm that."
"Escorts?"
"No sign of any, Sir."
"I see." Rollins stuffed his hands deeper into his pockets and resumed his pacing. Five probable battlecruisers headed away. It made sense, especially if the defenders had been completely surprised. They couldn't possibly have crammed the base's entire personnel aboard that few ships, but if they'd had to respond to an emergency and organize an evacuation on the fly to get out what they could, the timing was about right. Only where were their escorts?

Boldface is my emphasis.

n7axw wrote:I wonder if I am graduating to "old sweat" status around here. These light bulb ideas for using the captured SDs are looking dimmer all the time.

Guys, there are any number of uses to which these ships could be put. But for any idea to be truly useable, you have to ask yourself whether or not meeting a need in the advocated manner is truly the best, most cost effective way of achieving the desired end. No one really can afford to do it any other way. In Manticore's case, that was true even before OB. It's even more true now.

Using the captured SLN ships cannot be regarded as a goal that is worthwhile in and of itself.

Don

I want to provide 100 generally friendly systems with a minimally effective defense, if they are wiling to exert themselves, against an attack on the inhabited planets by pirates up to a SLN BC squadron scale threat. I do not want to provide them with current military gear that could be reverse engineered or used to attack me. I want to do this in the next 6 months. I propose offering them 3 SLN SDs each. You would accomplish this with what?

kzt wrote:I propose offering them 3 SLN SDs each. You would accomplish this with what?

A MATC wing of LACS with simulators to train an indigenous LAC defense (RHN Cimiterre or first generation Shrikes and Ferrets) along with a Moriarty or Mycroft based system defense missile installation.

Whether the defense is Manticore Lite or Haven Lite doesn't really matter -- it could even be Anderman or Erewhon Lite or a mix of everything. It provides a defense against everything up to a couple of squadrons of SLN SDs without any offensive capability outside of the system being defended.

Weird Harold wrote:

kzt wrote:I propose offering them 3 SLN SDs each. You would accomplish this with what?

A MATC wing of LACS with simulators to train an indigenous LAC defense (RHN Cimiterre or first generation Shrikes and Ferrets) along with a Moriarty or Mycroft based system defense missile installation.

Whether the defense is Manticore Lite or Haven Lite doesn't really matter -- it could even be Anderman or Erewhon Lite or a mix of everything. It provides a defense against everything up to a couple of squadrons of SLN SDs without any offensive capability outside of the system being defended.

So you are willing to send out 10,000 LACs, and 500,000 crew to defend "generally friendly" powers. You have deployed modern tech, and are busy training the people on these systems, who are not allied to you, in modern weapon systems. I assume you'll also need to deploy a few hundred FTL capable warships too? How could this possibly end badly?

Vince wrote:

SWM wrote:People have already done given a better idea. It would be cheaper, require less manpower, require little or no modification, require less maintenance, and would have a higher capacity to use an old freighter, or perhaps an old military transport. An evacuation vehicle does not require high speeds--remember that they were using a freighter to evacuate Hancock. Nor does it require defenses. No evacuation ship is going to endanger thousands of non-combat passengers by engaging in combat--if it is cornered and challenged, it will drop its wedge.

Your memory is playing tricks on you.

Operation Carry Out (the evacuation from Hancock Station in The Short Victorious War) was carried out by minelayers with military drives/compensators

Sigh. I thought for sure there was a freighter in addition to the minelayers. But I guess not. WoH doesn't say what Higgins used to evacuate the people he managed to get off Grendelsbane.

kzt wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:A MATC wing of LACS with simulators to train an indigenous LAC defense (RHN Cimiterre or first generation Shrikes and Ferrets) along with a Moriarty or Mycroft based system defense missile installation.

Whether the defense is Manticore Lite or Haven Lite doesn't really matter -- it could even be Anderman or Erewhon Lite or a mix of everything. It provides a defense against everything up to a couple of squadrons of SLN SDs without any offensive capability outside of the system being defended.

So you are willing to send out 10,000 LACs, and 500,000 crew to defend "generally friendly" powers. You have deployed modern tech, and are busy training the people on these systems, who are not allied to you, in modern weapon systems. I assume you'll also need to deploy a few hundred FTL capable warships too? How could this possibly end badly?

Um, Kzt, aren't you suggesting sending 300 SDs out with 600,000 crew?