Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests

Bureaucratic bungles

The Management is not responsible for the contents of this forum. Enter at your own risk.
Bureaucratic bungles
Post by DDHvi   » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:44 am

DDHvi
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:16 pm

It's always taxpayers who are forced to pay for the incompetence and apathy of their government tormentors.


http://cfif.org/v/index.php/commentary/ ... at-the-cdc

The advantage of honest capitalism over honest socialism is that elimination of bunglers is automatic, rather than political. Voting with our money still makes sense.
8-)
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd
ddhviste@drtel.net

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:10 pm

gcomeau
Admiral

Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:24 pm

DDHvi wrote:
It's always taxpayers who are forced to pay for the incompetence and apathy of their government tormentors.


http://cfif.org/v/index.php/commentary/ ... at-the-cdc

The advantage of honest capitalism over honest socialism is that elimination of bunglers is automatic, rather than political. Voting with our money still makes sense.
8-)


The problem is when people put just a little too much faith in that concept and don't think through what is involved in that "elimination".

Sure, someone who ignores health and safety standards in their meat packing plant will most likely eventually be "eliminated" from the market in a purely capitalist approach without "bureaucratic" government interference. That elimination may take the form of the backlash from consumers after a few dozen people are killed by some food contaminant but hey, problem solved right? (Well... you know.... for that one guy.... this one time...)

Unscrupulous traders in the markets running scams will probably eventually get found out and "eliminated" by people yanking all their funding. Grandma and Grandpa's retirement saving are gone now but hey, that guy who stole all their money is out of a job. Elimination successful!


Etc... because the thing is the 'invisible hand of the market' may be self regulating in a broad sense of the term, but it doesn't give a crap about collateral damage when it performs its regulation. And it also does not regulate things with the best interests of society in mind, it is just going for system equilibrium wherever it may be found. If that point is with a prosperous and equitable distribution of wealth across society it'll happily maintain itself there. If that point is with 40% of the nation living in poverty and a fractional percentage of the nation ruling over everyone else as obscenely wealthy oligarchs? Just as happy. Because the market doesn't give a crap about you or society or the quality of life of either.
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:51 pm

Howard T. Map-addict
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:47 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

gcomeau wrote:
See also: Monopoly, Kick-back, Pay-off, Insider Trading,
Blackmail, Bribery, Embezzelment (sic), and many others.

A Market will only stay Honest if it is Regulated.
Regulated by people, of course, so here we go again.

HTM, PHL

The problem is when people put just a little too much faith in that concept and don't think through what is involved in that "elimination".

{snip - htm,phl}

Etc... because the thing is the 'invisible hand of the market' may be self regulating in a broad sense of the term, but it doesn't give a crap about collateral damage when it performs its regulation. And it also does not regulate things with the best interests of society in mind, it is just going for system equilibrium wherever it may be found. If that point is with a prosperous and equitable distribution of wealth across society it'll happily maintain itself there. If that point is with 40% of the nation living in poverty and a fractional percentage of the nation ruling over everyone else as obscenely wealthy oligarchs? Just as happy. Because the market doesn't give a crap about you or society or the quality of life of either.
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:03 pm

thinkstoomuch
Admiral

Posts: 2728
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: United States of America

Howard I have not a blooming clue of what you just said.

Which is unusual. I may not agree with you but I generally understand your posts.

T2M
-----------------------
Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:58 am

Michael Everett
Admiral

Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:54 am
Location: Bristol, England

thinkstoomuch wrote:Howard I have not a blooming clue of what you just said.

Option 1) He got distracted after quoting and forgot to actually type anything.
Option 2) He was rendered speechless and used the quotation function to show it.
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.
(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
ACNH Dreams at DA-6594-0940-7995
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by Annachie   » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:35 am

Annachie
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3099
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 pm

Or he accidently wrote it inside the quote.

Buy yet again we see Socialism confused with Comunism.

Capatilism is a socialist system. If it wasn't then there'd be no shares for people to own.

When capatilism leaves socialism is where we end up with, well Oligarchy.
The bunglers at the top don't get eliminated because they are part of the entitled elites.
We're damn close to that as it is.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by munroburton   » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:49 am

munroburton
Admiral

Posts: 2379
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:16 am
Location: Scotland

This is how it should have looked.

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:See also: Monopoly, Kick-back, Pay-off, Insider Trading,
Blackmail, Bribery, Embezzelment (sic), and many others.

A Market will only stay Honest if it is Regulated.
Regulated by people, of course, so here we go again.

HTM, PHL

gcomeau wrote:The problem is when people put just a little too much faith in that concept and don't think through what is involved in that "elimination".

{snip - htm,phl}

Etc... because the thing is the 'invisible hand of the market' may be self regulating in a broad sense of the term, but it doesn't give a crap about collateral damage when it performs its regulation. And it also does not regulate things with the best interests of society in mind, it is just going for system equilibrium wherever it may be found. If that point is with a prosperous and equitable distribution of wealth across society it'll happily maintain itself there. If that point is with 40% of the nation living in poverty and a fractional percentage of the nation ruling over everyone else as obscenely wealthy oligarchs? Just as happy. Because the market doesn't give a crap about you or society or the quality of life of either.
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:41 am

thinkstoomuch
Admiral

Posts: 2728
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: United States of America

Thank you all for explaining it to me.

Enjoy the day,
T2M

munroburton wrote:This is how it should have looked.
-----------------------
Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by aairfccha   » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:17 am

aairfccha
Commander

Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:03 pm

DDHvi wrote:
It's always taxpayers who are forced to pay for the incompetence and apathy of their government tormentors.


http://cfif.org/v/index.php/commentary/ ... at-the-cdc

The advantage of honest capitalism over honest socialism is that elimination of bunglers is automatic, rather than political. Voting with our money still makes sense.
8-)

There is no real competition in hospitals, outside dense urban centres, they are a natural monopoly as there simply is not enough demand to make starting a competing one worthwhile. Also often (see also MRSA) cleaning staff is the first to be squeezed or outsourced in the quest for economical competitiveness (which is the only criteria by which market-competition works). "You have five minutes to clean each room" is only icky in a hotel but actively dangerous here. The same goes for hiring unskilled people for peanuts.
Top
Re: Bureaucratic bungles
Post by biochem   » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:05 am

biochem
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1372
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:06 pm
Location: USA

It's always taxpayers who are forced to pay for the incompetence and apathy of their government tormentors.

http://cfif.org/v/index.php/commentary/ ... at-the-cdc

The advantage of honest capitalism over honest socialism is that elimination of bunglers is automatic, rather than political. Voting with our money still makes sense.
8-)

There is no real competition in hospitals, outside dense urban centres, they are a natural monopoly as there simply is not enough demand to make starting a competing one worthwhile. Also often (see also MRSA) cleaning staff is the first to be squeezed or outsourced in the quest for economical competitiveness (which is the only criteria by which market-competition works). "You have five minutes to clean each room" is only icky in a hotel but actively dangerous here. The same goes for hiring unskilled people for peanuts.


Well you could deal with it the traditional government micromanagment way which it to put together list of best practices in 2016, enact them into rules, dump a huge compliance burden onto the small hospitals and driving them out of business and preventing the implementation of a better infection prevention process developed in 2018 because it is non-compliant.

Or you could enact regulations making executives personally responsible. If you put in place a regulation that required hospital executives to personally pay a fine out of their own pockets if MRSA (and other hospital acquired infections) reach unacceptable levels, then those executives would make very very sure that their hospital followed best practices, that the cleaning staff were competent even if they have to pay more and that those practices were regularly updates as better processes were discovered.

Requiring responsibility is far simpler and far more effective than micromanagement.
Top

Return to Politics